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<scribe> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
<scribe> scribenick: MaryJo
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/FINAL4/results
<greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/with-survey-edits
2.4.5 - Multiple ways: You can't have this be required within an individual software application. We softened the language to have this be advisory.
On Note 7 - This language has been made softer, but we may want to consider making it softer still.
<korn> "The definition of a set of [documents|software] is predicated on the ability to navigate from each element of the set to each other, and navigation is a type of locating. Where authors are able to assume that such an infrastructure exists..., authors would automatically have multiple ways for locating anything that is a set of [documents|software]".
<greggvanderheiden> NOTE 5: "The definition of a set of [documents|software] is predicated on the ability to navigate from each element of the set to each other, and navigation is a type of locating, thus any set of software that meets definition of "set of software" would automatically have one means for finding the other software in the set. Browsing to the individual software programs would be another.
The use of 'automatically be met' is problematic in the note, so the above text contains two proposed changes.
<korn> The definition of a set of [documents|software] is predicated on the ability to navigate from each element of the set to each other, and navigation is a type of locating. Where authors are able to assume that an infrastructure exists such at the one described in Note 2, authors would automatically have multiple ways for locating anything that is a set of [documents|software]".
<Loic> +1 to this new version of the note 5
<korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/with-survey-edits
<korn> The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" in Key Terms section of Introduction are both predicated on the ability...
<korn> NOTE 7: Some users may find it useful to have multiple ways to locate some groups of user interface elements within a document or software product but this is not required by the success criterion (and may pose difficulties in some situations)
<greggvanderheiden> NOTE 7: Some users may find it useful to have multiple ways to locate some groups of user interface elements within a document or software product but this is not required by the success criterion (and may pose difficulties in some situations).
Need to think about this SC again as to implications for closed products. End users won't necessarily know that there are different applications contained on the device - they see it as a single application.
History of this SC for WCAG: It was added for cognitive disabilities, and was written so it is difficult to fail. It is used to raise awareness and provide a place for a lot of pertinent advisory techniques.
We might want to consider adding a note about closed products in the definition of 'set of software'.
<alex_> NOTE 5: The definitions of "set of documents" and "set of software" in the Key Terms section are predicated on the both the ability to navigate from each element of the set to each other (with navigation being a type of locating), and the ability to launch and use members of the set independents (also a type of locating). Therefore, by definition, authors would automatically have multiple ways of locating anything that is within a "set of documents" or "set[CUT]
<greggvanderheiden> Note 7: In closed products, if there is no independent method to launch programs - they would not meet the definition of a set of programs. If there is, then it would constitute one way for
<korn> Note 7: If there is no independent method to launch programs (as is common in closed products), that set of programs would not meet the definition of a set of programs.
Note 7 doesn't just apply to closed products. If there is no independent way to launch programs, it wouldn't be a 'set of software' whether in a closed product or not.
<korn> Note 7: If there is no independent method to launch programs (as is common in closed products), those programs would not meet the definition of a set of programs.
<Mike_P> Note 7: If there is no independent method to launch programs (as is common in closed products), those programs would not meet tThe definition of a set of programs.
Multiple ways is for users to be able to have easy ways for a user to locate/launch a program. Search is one way to find an application.
<Mike_P> typing a command is "specifying" not locating"
Typing direct commands doesn't seem to be a way of locating.
We shouldn't say 'automatically' in the previous version of Note 5. However, a command line interface isn't necessarily a good way to provide a good search.
Command line interfaces also pose a problem with applying WCAG, and we'll have to address that sometime in the future.
So the previous version of Note 5 is better.
RESOLUTION: Accept the revised 2.4.5 with revised Notes 5 and 7, and the revised definition of 'set of software' with the new Note 7.
<greggvanderheiden> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/FINAL4/results
3.2.3 Consistent Navigation: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/FINAL4/results#xq4
Notes 1 and 2 have been modified based on survey comments for this SC, as well as carried through comments from other SC.
The addition of '(products)' was made so the sentence made more sense. In the definition, we use 'programs' so this should be used instead, and will carry over into all 4 SC.
RESOLUTION: Replace
'(products)' with 'programs' globally.
RESOLUTION: Accept text of 3.2.3 as revised in the meeting.
SC 3.2.4 Consistent Identification: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/FINAL4/results#xq5
Proposed changes from the survey were folded into the edited proposal.
RESOLUTION: Accept text of 3.2.4 as revised in the meeting, with a note for the WCAG working group to clarify the intent.
We may have to revisit our text depending on the intent clarification from WCAG.
We won't have time to go over these surveys this meeting, and will work on them next time.
The surveys will be reopened to allow more time to complete.
The purpose of the surveys is not to have WCAG2ICT group make recommendations to M376, but to come up with agreed thoughts/comments from our group.
Then we can individually submit comments through the remaining commenting process on M376.
We will probably be able to go through these surveys fairly quickly.
Peter will put together the 3rd survey on closed products next week and then work on conformance.
Next meeting is the same day/time - next Friday.
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