Digital Publishing Community group

shepazu: we are looking at publication

… I am web app and svg

… ivan is looking at semantic web

… the process is the headlight process

… you are all familiar with it

… we are looking at things whether w3c can/should something in digital publication

scribe: it may be relevant for w3c , the formats use all kind of w3c standards

… epub is a good example that use profiles of these specifications (html, css, mathml, etc0

… we had discussion with them (IDPF)

… they have a different set of constraints

… w3c moves a bit more slowly, but works good test suites and is more in the public

… we also want to make sure that what w3c is doing is meeting the needs of things like epub

… and there may be other issues on electronic publishing which are not relevant for epub

… we do not want to limit what this is about

… if people feel they want, e.g., non packaged books, that should be in scope

… also, content protection may be of interest

… we want to sure that authors and publishers make money

… so there are issues around rights, also electronic publishing

… there are also issue around micro publication, aggregation of scientific publications, datasets,

… the semantic web, big data to publishing, e.g., in scientific publishing

… this call is whether w3c *should* be doing something

… we are not to define a format

… whether w3c should start some level of work in this area

… i.e., are there issues with w3c, are you hindered that w3c may help, what direction we should go *if* we go into this

glazou: daniel glazman, i am co-chair of the css wg

… i am implementing an epub3 wswyg editor

… you touched a very sensitive issue to me

… there is one domain where idpf is much advanced on us, that is the table of content

… it is a bit messy, because they have toc for readers, for voice, etc

… this is where we can learn from there

shepazu: other things are like glossaries

… indexes, things like that, these are all interesting problems to look at

Sanders: i am at o'reilly, publishing engineer

… as somebody implementing an epub3 tool chain

… i am here to see the direction

… one of the challenges is to standardize one epub file that would work over all readers

… example in html5 is the formats for audio and video

… html5 is fairly agnostic, but this is a real challenge for epub readers

… so standardizing media formats would be a great plus

shepazu: are there issues beyond media?

sanders: there are nuances in readers, like css2.1, and this is a challenge

… maybe not in this group

… i do not have the answers to these, but hopefully there is a place for standardization there

shepazu: improving test suites may help, and that is w3c is working on

… for extensions is not something we do, but we could work with epub to do that

… as for the formats

… this goes down to the hardware level (for the decoding)

… for the web it makes sense, but for epub I can see the issue

… maybe some sort of a format might work here

… one say you must support H264, the other say webm

… that might make the publishing toolchain easier

… so the idea of profiles might be a good way forward

mgylling: with the idpf

… i also have a background in the DAISY Consortium

… potential things to work on

… one of the issues is centered around interactivity and scripting

… until the end of last year epub was static

… but now the publishing community that people can do whatever they want via scripts

<JeanKap> interactivity and scripting is HUGE. And we're seeing more demand for it on Android in addition to iOS and the other platforms.

… both for users and publishers finding some structures (widgets, apis) would be very improtant

… it is a challenge for publishers, there are accessibility issues, etc

<JeanKap> and we really can't do whatever we want via scripts - we can only do what, for instance, the iBooks app, will support.

… e.g., a fully functional widget specification would be great

shepazu: there are a number of issues, performance, etc

… do you have a suggested solution?

mgylling: not really. IDPF can do things on its own, but it is worth discussing in this group, relations to the w3c widget works, svg animation, etc

shepazu: we could work on filling the gaps in the profile that epub is

… another aspect is the widget things

… widgets were at w3c to standardize a packaging format for web applications

… it never took off on the market

… but there is potentially more interest now

… it would not be widget but something like that

… the point is the group is to see whether there is anything we would do

… specifically the goal is to create a report for our ac meeting and then a final report for the w3c management

… it might be that in a couple months we may have dedicated resources on this

… for the time being we concentrate on what is important for w3c to do

… just to set the scope...

murray: i have been involved in publication since 77...

… so i am interested in publ formats

… and also real books

… do we consider any other formats than html5

… to get more capabilities in the publishing domain

… that today we have to take our rich formats to convert them down to html to work with browsers

… is this group explore to use other formats

… or do we have the opportunity to inform on other formats

shepazu: any format is of course interesting, but there are huge resources in html5 at w3c

… different formats within w3c: i doubt it

… is it in the scope of this group to make recommendation for html.next? Yes, absolutely

… so if there are inputs getting there, that would be very valuable

… now that browsers are getting into this market

Murray: one of the key things that affect my abilities

… if browsers would take any element name and format on that name

shepazu: I think that if you looked at the component model work

… there you can define your own element with scripted behavior

Murray: another thing is more link capabilities

shepazu: we tried with xlink in the past, and we did not get much uptake for that...

JeanKap: epub and digital solution at Aptara

… I am involved on the idpf on indexing, i was also involved with docbook

… and had employment history in publishing in general, educational publishing

… working with epub since 1996

… one of the thing i am concerned about is the number of forks we see to epub3

… that might undermine the success of epub3

… there is the ibook format

… another what apple did with extending ebook

… and then there is the amazon format

… some are essentially epub3, but there are too much extension

… we have to advocate for *the* standard

<emma> +1

… we need to have some pitch/messaging around that it is everybody's interest to use a standard

… today if I have to publish ebook with also interactivity in it, then i have to produce different ebooks

shepazu: i do thing that there desire to standard around thing

… w3c, for example cannot force anybody to use a standard

scribe: there can be pressure from the public, from the publishers

… e.g., if there is a joint idpf/w3c messaging, marketing push, conformance criteria, it could help the market

JeanKap: what I am thinking is the w3c putting its emphasis to use the standard, if we had a common statement, it shows that idpf is not just there by itself

… i think we need more public messaging

shepazu: i know that epub looked at iso certification, we are also a pas submitter to iso

… that sort of a market issue

… if we had something where governments could say that textbooks should be used in that format, for example, i think you would see various reader providers rush to that format

… right now I know that lot of schools have mandated the use of iPads, deals have been done on products

… that troubles me

… I see epub a way to improve what we had with pdf

… epub has the potential to be much more influential

<JeanKap> [even more concerning is legislation in the US focusing on ebooks - they want to choose a platform, and since iPad is the most known platform, there is a lot of support for pushing this into the legislation.]

… this is another way, looking at that verticle

Liam: i am the xml activity lead at w3c, also the chair of the xml printing and layout wg

… i have been talking to number of publishers and people working on ebooks

… anything we do should fit the workflows publishers have

… the people i talked to use xml technologies, then convert them to ebooks

<Zakim> Liam, you wanted to say hello and mention workflow

shepazu: there are lot of people using xml workflows,

… we have to look at that

emma: emanuelle bernes, in digital libraries

… my perspective is the end user one

… the many forks of epub is an issue

… e.g., interoperability's, preservation, all lead to issues

… it is important to have a standard that is shared by the community

… it is also about the metadata, not only the format,

… that is important for libraries

… i also think print publishers (in France) know nothing about techniques and formats

… they rely on third parties and companies

… if they are to transform what they do to digital form

… the issue is that they do not know what standard to use

… they will listen to 3rd format

… that touches on the marketing issue, we need strong standards

… so that we can keep interoperability's and preservation in mind

shepazu: metadata and better documentation how to use these things

… a lot could be done there

<Liam> ivan: an interesting point, I've started discussions with libraries

<Liam> and libraries are looking at metadata

<Liam> e.g. Lib Congress

<Liam> ...so some community very interested

<Liam> epub needs to be prepared for the kind of metadata the library community needs, and vice versa

George: i work with the secretary of the daisy consortium (accessibility community)

… we worked with the idpf to help to improve the epub3 in this respect

… the d consortium has lots of contact with the various w3c standard

… we work with idpf to make epub fully accessible

… we certainly want to harmonize with w3c

… in the metadata area we are very flexible

… and with epub we wanted to extend the semantics to html5

… i suspect a lot of publishers will target epub3 formats

… i think epub3 is a great standard

shepazu: i would like to come up with actions...

… we should comb through the minutes

… on the wiki we should start writing down what we extracted w3c could be doing here

… we could then all write down use cases, scenarios

… each put down a couple of scenarios that support an activity w3c would do

… on the technical as well as social side

… e.g., promoting the standard

… I will try to summarize these minutes

… me or ivan will send a mail pointing to the wiki

… to put forward the case to the w3c management to should (or should not) do something in this area

… i invite people to share things on the mailing list

… we have a number of different backgrounds here

… we would really want to hear from people who are users, metadata, etc.

<JeanKap> Thank you!

<Sanders> Thank you!