The last minutes were accepted, an action is still outstanding, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are again encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
Yolanda kindly suggested to run an extra session to present XG results to the WG. Extra call will take place on Friday June 3, 8am Pacific time, 5pm Paris.
It is was agreed to continue discussion on the mailing list and wiki
We had an open discussion on the concept of resources. Lots of good points were made that had not been expressed on the mailing list or wiki. Group members are invited to write them down so that we can reflect on them.
14:42:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-irc ←
14:42:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
<luc>Guest: Yolanda Gil
14:42:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:42:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:42:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:42:53 <trackbot> Date: 26 May 2011
14:43:20 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:43:20 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes ←
14:44:00 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.05.26
14:44:13 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:44:19 <Luc> Scribe: Timothy Lebo
(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)
14:44:34 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:46:03 <Luc> Regrets: Olaf Hartig, Iker Huerga, Simon Dobson
14:50:12 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:50:19 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
14:50:44 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:50:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P0 ←
14:50:57 <Luc> zakim, ??P0 is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
14:50:57 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
14:51:30 <Luc> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:51:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc ←
14:52:07 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
14:52:27 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
14:52:27 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
14:53:22 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
14:53:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, pgroth ←
14:53:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot ←
14:54:06 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
14:54:33 <smiles> zakim, ??P12 is me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P12 is me ←
14:54:33 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
14:54:40 <GK> My VOIP software client license has expired ... I thought it was free for basic use ... will take me a while here to get something sorted.
Graham Klyne: My VOIP software client license has expired ... I thought it was free for basic use ... will take me a while here to get something sorted. ←
14:56:01 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaaa ←
14:56:55 <Luc> hi tim
Luc Moreau: hi tim ←
14:57:25 <tlebo> scribe: tlebo
14:57:32 <Zakim> +frew
Zakim IRC Bot: +frew ←
14:58:24 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
14:58:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, frew
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, frew ←
14:58:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, tlebo, paolo, frew, smiles, pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dgarijo, tlebo, paolo, frew, smiles, pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot ←
14:58:55 <tlebo> Zakim, aaaa is tlebo
Zakim, aaaa is tlebo ←
14:58:55 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
14:59:35 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
14:59:37 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
14:59:54 <paolo> hallo, has the passcode changed by any chance?
Paolo Missier: hallo, has the passcode changed by any chance? ←
15:00:02 <Luc> no, still same
Luc Moreau: no, still same ←
15:00:07 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P33 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P33 is me ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:00:12 <Luc> i had to try several times
Luc Moreau: i had to try several times ←
15:00:13 <paolo> doesn't take it.
Paolo Missier: doesn't take it. ←
15:00:16 <Zakim> +??P27
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27 ←
15:00:17 <paolo> will try again
Paolo Missier: will try again ←
15:00:24 <Zakim> +SatyaSahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +SatyaSahoo ←
15:00:26 <dgarijo> i had to try twice too
Daniel Garijo: i had to try twice too ←
15:00:30 <jorn> Zakim: ??p37 is me
15:00:34 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:00:37 <jun> zakim, ??p27 is me
Jun Zhao: zakim, ??p27 is me ←
15:00:37 <Zakim> +jun; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jun; got it ←
15:00:46 <jorn> Zakim, ??p37 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p37 is me ←
15:00:46 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:00:51 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P10 is really me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P10 is really me ←
15:00:51 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:00:52 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, tlebo, frew, jorn, dgarijo, jun, SatyaSahoo, khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, tlebo, frew, jorn, dgarijo, jun, SatyaSahoo, khalidbelhajjame ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see Edoardo, satya, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, jun, dgarijo, tlebo, paolo, frew, smiles, pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Edoardo, satya, SamCoppens, khalidbelhajjame, jun, dgarijo, tlebo, paolo, frew, smiles, pgroth, GK, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, martin, jorn, sandro, trackbot ←
15:01:19 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
15:01:40 <tlebo> scribe is a newbie, please help me identify the speaker during the discussions.
scribe is a newbie, please help me identify the speaker during the discussions. ←
15:01:56 <paolo> UK number busy and US number won't take my pin.
Paolo Missier: UK number busy and US number won't take my pin. ←
15:02:25 <Zakim> +??P49
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P49 ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> +VinhNguyen
Zakim IRC Bot: +VinhNguyen ←
15:02:37 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P49 is really me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P49 is really me ←
15:02:37 <tlebo> luc: Agenda items: 1) administrative issues, 2) presentation from incubator, 3) web arch., 4) "Resource"
Luc Moreau: Agenda items: 1) administrative issues, 2) presentation from incubator, 3) web arch., 4) "Resource" ←
15:02:41 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:02:47 <Zakim> +??P55
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P55 ←
<luc>TOPIC: Admin
Summary: The last minutes were accepted, an action is still outstanding, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are again encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
<luc>Summary: The last minutes were accepted, an action is still outstanding, invited expert issues are still being resolved by the W3C, and all are again encouraged to sign up to be scribes for future meetings.
<luc>Subtopic: minutes
15:02:55 <tlebo> luc: admin issues - approve minutes from last week.
Luc Moreau: admin issues - approve minutes from last week. ←
15:03:03 <tlebo> proposed: accept minutes
PROPOSED: accept minutes ←
15:02:55 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:02:59 <Zakim> + +1.213.290.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.213.290.aabb ←
15:02:59 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:03:01 <khalidbelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
15:03:01 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:03:03 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:03:04 <frew> +1
James Frew: +1 ←
15:03:07 <jorn> +1
15:03:09 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:03:10 <pgroth> +1
Paul Groth: +1 ←
15:03:10 <jun> +1
15:03:11 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1 ←
15:03:28 <tlebo> resolved: minutes
RESOLVED: minutes ←
15:03:51 <tlebo> mapping callers to irc IDs - please tell zakim who you are.
mapping callers to irc IDs - please tell zakim who you are. ←
15:04:05 <Edoardo> we might be ??P55
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: we might be ??P55 ←
15:04:16 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:04:20 <Zakim> +zednik
Zakim IRC Bot: +zednik ←
15:04:23 <jorn> Zakim, ??p55 may be Edoardo
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p55 may be Edoardo ←
15:04:49 <Christine> I am probably [IP caller]
Christine Runnegar: I am probably [IP caller] ←
15:04:56 <tlebo> subtopic: Action review
15:04:56 <tlebo> Multiple sources in Journalism Example
Multiple sources in Journalism Example ←
15:04:56 <tlebo> tlebo: will propose as we develop the concept definitions from the example.
Timothy Lebo: will propose as we develop the concept definitions from the example. ←
15:05:04 <Zakim> + +30281039aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +30281039aacc ←
15:05:09 <tlebo> subtopic: invited experts
15:05:33 <tlebo> Satya's status still has not changed, prov-wg chairs have no insight into the w3c invited expert process.
Satya's status still has not changed, prov-wg chairs have no insight into the w3c invited expert process. ←
15:05:37 <Zakim> +Edoardo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Edoardo; got it ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
15:05:47 <tlebo> action: luc to ask w3 about invited experts.
ACTION: luc to ask w3 about invited experts. ←
15:05:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Ask w3 about invited experts. [on Luc Moreau - due 2011-06-02].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-5 - Ask w3 about invited experts. [on Luc Moreau - due 2011-06-02]. ←
15:06:06 <tlebo> issue: someone please sign up to scribe next week.
ISSUE: someone please sign up to scribe next week. ←
15:06:09 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-18 - Someone please sign up to scribe next week. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/18/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-18 - Someone please sign up to scribe next week. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/18/edit . ←
15:06:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
15:06:31 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
15:06:37 <Yogesh> zakim, who is on the call?
Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:06:38 <tlebo> luc: participation to discussion. we need others to participate.
Luc Moreau: participation to discussion. we need others to participate. ←
15:06:58 <paolo> for the record: I am also requesting an update on how to participate while member status is pending. thaks
Paolo Missier: for the record: I am also requesting an update on how to participate while member status is pending. thaks ←
15:07:04 <Zakim> + +1.915.747.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.915.747.aadd ←
15:07:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, tlebo, frew, jorn, dgarijo, jun, SatyaSahoo, khalidbelhajjame, VinhNguyen, Yolanda, Edoardo, +1.213.290.aabb, [IPcaller], zednik,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Luc, pgroth, smiles, tlebo, frew, jorn, dgarijo, jun, SatyaSahoo, khalidbelhajjame, VinhNguyen, Yolanda, Edoardo, +1.213.290.aabb, [IPcaller], zednik, ←
15:07:09 <Zakim> ... +30281039aacc, ??P9, ??P28, [IPcaller.a], +1.915.747.aadd (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +30281039aacc, ??P9, ??P28, [IPcaller.a], +1.915.747.aadd (muted) ←
15:07:22 <frew> +1
James Frew: +1 ←
15:07:24 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for Yolanda idea
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for Yolanda idea ←
15:07:25 <tlebo> topic: XG Results
Summary: Yolanda kindly suggested to run an extra session to present XG results to the WG. Extra call will take place on Friday June 3, 8am Pacific time, 5pm Paris.
15:07:25 <tlebo> luc: is there interest in presentation of XG results to educate group membership ?
Luc Moreau: is there interest in presentation of XG results to educate group membership ? ←
15:07:27 <satya> +1 for presentation
Satya Sahoo: +1 for presentation ←
15:07:30 <paulo_> +1
15:07:31 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:07:33 <jorn> +1
15:07:34 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:07:34 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:07:35 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:07:35 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1 ←
15:07:41 <paolo> +1
Paolo Missier: +1 ←
15:07:42 <Zakim> +??P42
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P42 ←
15:07:43 <CarlOGC> +1
15:07:51 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P42 is me
James Cheney: Zakim, ??P42 is me ←
15:07:56 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:08:11 <Christine> A refresher would be useful. Having missed the first couple of meetings of this, I am still trying to get up to speed.
Christine Runnegar: A refresher would be useful. Having missed the first couple of meetings of this, I am still trying to get up to speed. ←
15:08:13 <pgroth> zakim, who is noisy?
Paul Groth: zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:08:13 <dgarijo> Zakim, who is making noise?
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, who is making noise? ←
15:08:23 <Zakim> pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (84%), +1.213.290.aabb (30%), khalidbelhajjame (19%)
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (84%), +1.213.290.aabb (30%), khalidbelhajjame (19%) ←
15:08:25 <tlebo> yolanda will present; but what time?
yolanda will present; but what time? ←
15:08:34 <Zakim> dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (79%), +1.213.290.aabb (73%)
Zakim IRC Bot: dgarijo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (79%), +1.213.290.aabb (73%) ←
15:08:38 <jorn> Zakim, please mute aabb
Jörn Hees: Zakim, please mute aabb ←
15:08:38 <Zakim> +1.213.290.aabb should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: +1.213.290.aabb should now be muted ←
15:08:41 <paolo> 16
Paolo Missier: 16 ←
15:08:55 <paolo> 4pm UK
Paolo Missier: 4pm UK ←
15:09:11 <Christine> Ok for me
Christine Runnegar: Ok for me ←
15:09:12 <tlebo> Monday, 8am Pacific time, 5pm France time
Monday, 8am Pacific time, 5pm France time ←
15:09:13 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:09:18 <frew> mon 31 may is a holiday in the us
James Frew: mon 31 may is a holiday in the us ←
15:09:22 <dgarijo> i won't be able to make it on monday :(
Daniel Garijo: i won't be able to make it on monday :( ←
15:09:26 <khalidbelhajjame> Monday is a bank holiday in the UK
Khalid Belhajjame: Monday is a bank holiday in the UK ←
15:09:39 <frew> oops I meant mon 30 may
James Frew: oops I meant mon 30 may ←
15:09:50 <tlebo> Tuesday 8am Pacific time
Tuesday 8am Pacific time ←
15:09:51 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:09:53 <jcheney> I will be away both days
James Cheney: I will be away both days ←
15:09:54 <paulo_> +1 (Tues)
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: +1 (Tues) ←
15:09:56 <Christine> Should be okay
Christine Runnegar: Should be okay ←
15:09:58 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for tuesday
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for tuesday ←
15:09:59 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:10:00 <frew> -1 (conflict)
James Frew: -1 (conflict) ←
15:10:03 <jorn> +1 (both ok)
15:10:03 <paolo> I can make it
Paolo Missier: I can make it ←
15:10:10 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:10:15 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:10:23 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1 ←
15:10:37 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.213.290 is me
Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, +1.213.290 is me ←
15:10:37 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh; got it ←
15:10:38 <tlebo> -1 Thursday
-1 Thursday ←
15:10:39 <zednik> -1 for Tuesday
Stephan Zednik: -1 for Tuesday ←
15:10:42 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 for thursday
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 for thursday ←
15:10:42 <dgarijo> +1 for thursday
Daniel Garijo: +1 for thursday ←
15:10:46 <frew> +1 thu
James Frew: +1 thu ←
15:10:47 <paolo> -1 for Thu
Paolo Missier: -1 for Thu ←
15:10:49 <jorn> +1 thursday
15:10:50 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:10:53 <Edoardo> -1 Thursday
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: -1 Thursday ←
15:10:54 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:10:57 <satya> -1 for thursday (conflict)
Satya Sahoo: -1 for thursday (conflict) ←
15:10:58 <smiles> +1 thursday
Simon Miles: +1 thursday ←
15:10:59 <paulo> -1 (Thurs) conflict
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: -1 (Thurs) conflict ←
15:11:03 <Christine> Thursday is a holiday in Switzerland
Christine Runnegar: Thursday is a holiday in Switzerland ←
15:11:06 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:11:28 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:11:30 <paolo> +1 for Fri
Paolo Missier: +1 for Fri ←
15:11:31 <satya> +1 friday
Satya Sahoo: +1 friday ←
15:11:32 <frew> +1 Fri
James Frew: +1 Fri ←
15:11:33 <paulo> +1 (Fri)
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: +1 (Fri) ←
15:11:34 <dgarijo> +1 for friday
Daniel Garijo: +1 for friday ←
15:11:36 <jcheney> +1 Fri
James Cheney: +1 Fri ←
15:11:36 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:11:38 <zednik> +1 Fri
Stephan Zednik: +1 Fri ←
15:11:39 <Edoardo> +1 Fri
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1 Fri ←
15:11:42 <khalidbelhajjame> -1 fri
Khalid Belhajjame: -1 fri ←
15:11:43 <Christine> - 1 Friday (conflict)
Christine Runnegar: - 1 Friday (conflict) ←
15:11:46 <stain> +1 friday
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 friday ←
15:11:58 <smiles> -1 friday (but i don't need to attend)
Simon Miles: -1 friday (but i don't need to attend) ←
15:12:03 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:12:23 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:12:52 <jcheney> yes, more important for people who weren't there
James Cheney: yes, more important for people who weren't there ←
15:12:54 <dgarijo> +1 to what paul said
Daniel Garijo: +1 to what paul said ←
15:12:58 <frew> +1 paul
James Frew: +1 paul ←
15:13:00 <pgroth> friday?
Paul Groth: friday? ←
15:13:27 <tlebo> +1 friday
+1 friday ←
15:13:28 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:13:34 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:13:36 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:13:37 <paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
15:13:37 <jorn> +1
15:13:48 <VinhNguyen> +1
Vinh Nguyen: +1 ←
15:13:48 <Luc> ack paolo
Luc Moreau: ack paolo ←
15:14:01 <Zakim> -??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←
15:14:09 <pgroth> friday looks good
Paul Groth: friday looks good ←
15:14:17 <tlebo> pmissier: the slides can be viewed offline
Paolo Missier: the slides can be viewed offline ←
15:14:32 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
15:14:35 <dgarijo> if I don't remember wrong, the slides are already available, aren't they?
Daniel Garijo: if I don't remember wrong, the slides are already available, aren't they? ←
15:14:41 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:14:44 <dgarijo> Yolanda made a presentation already...
Daniel Garijo: Yolanda made a presentation already... ←
15:15:20 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/File:Provenance-XG-Overview.pdf
James Cheney: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/File:Provenance-XG-Overview.pdf ←
15:15:49 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/File:Provenance-XG-Overview.pdf
Daniel Garijo: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/prov/wiki/File:Provenance-XG-Overview.pdf ←
15:15:58 <dgarijo> late , sorry.
Daniel Garijo: late , sorry. ←
15:14:56 <tlebo> resolved: extra call next week 8am Friday for Yolanda to review incubator group.
RESOLVED: extra call next week 8am Friday for Yolanda to review incubator group. ←
<luc>Summary: Yolanda kindly suggested to run an extra session to present XG results to the WG. Extra call will take place on Friday June 3, 8am Pacific time, 5pm Paris.
15:15:01 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
15:15:02 <SamCoppens> zakim, ??P6 is me
Sam Coppens: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:15:03 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
15:15:11 <tlebo> topic: Access and Query Task Force
Summary: It is was agreed to continue discussion on the mailing list and wiki
<luc> Summary: It is was agreed to continue discussion on the mailing list and wiki
15:15:14 <jorn> Zakim, ??p37 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p37 is me ←
15:15:14 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:15:34 <tlebo> last week: used section 6 and put on wiki for editing.
last week: used section 6 and put on wiki for editing. ←
15:16:07 <tlebo> graham is not online, olaf also not (both were key participants on email)
graham is not online, olaf also not (both were key participants on email) ←
15:16:15 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:16:33 <tlebo> luc: we should continue discussion on mailing list; we also should edit the wiki.
Luc Moreau: we should continue discussion on mailing list; we also should edit the wiki. ←
15:16:44 <paolo> GK had the same problem
Paolo Missier: GK had the same problem ←
15:16:47 <paolo> persist...
Paolo Missier: persist... ←
15:16:48 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:16:50 <pgroth> GK it should be ok
Paul Groth: GK it should be ok ←
15:16:50 <tlebo> +1 mailing list and wiki continuing
+1 mailing list and wiki continuing ←
15:16:57 <pgroth> did you dial into the us number
Paul Groth: did you dial into the us number ←
15:16:58 <pgroth> ?
Paul Groth: ? ←
15:17:05 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:17:10 <Luc> ack smiles
Luc Moreau: ack smiles ←
15:17:24 <tlebo> smiles: good idea, plan for editing wiki page?
Simon Miles: good idea, plan for editing wiki page? ←
15:17:36 <tlebo> how to deal with diverging views? everyone edit?
how to deal with diverging views? everyone edit? ←
15:17:44 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
15:18:05 <tlebo> graham discussed scope - wiki needs to define scope but does not
graham discussed scope - wiki needs to define scope but does not ←
15:18:15 <tlebo> luc: we should discuss on mailing list and follow up on wiki with results.
Luc Moreau: we should discuss on mailing list and follow up on wiki with results. ←
15:18:24 <tlebo> luc: making new pages, commenting - everyone is free to do so.
Luc Moreau: making new pages, commenting - everyone is free to do so. ←
15:18:24 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:19:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:19:08 <tlebo> luc: remember for f2f, we need proposal and issues against that proposal (for PAQ TF)
Luc Moreau: remember for f2f, we need proposal and issues against that proposal (for PAQ TF) ←
15:19:08 <tlebo> luc: tabling topic because Graham and Olaf are absent
Luc Moreau: tabling topic because Graham and Olaf are absent ←
15:19:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
15:19:35 <tlebo> topic: Charter concept - "Resource"
Summary: We had an open discussion on the concept of resources. Lots of good points were made that had not been expressed on the mailing list or wiki. Group members are invited to write them down so that we can reflect on them.
<luc>Summary: We had an open discussion on the concept of resources. Lots of good points were made that had not been expressed on the mailing list or wiki. Group members are invited to write them down so that we can reflect on them.
15:19:38 <pgroth_> Zakim, +[IPcaller�.aa] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, +[IPcaller�.aa] is me ←
15:19:38 <Zakim> sorry, pgroth_, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller�.aa]'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pgroth_, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller�.aa]' ←
15:20:24 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:20:28 <tlebo> luc: additional ideas for "Resource"
Luc Moreau: additional ideas for "Resource" ←
15:20:31 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:20:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:20:42 <Luc> ack dgarijo
Luc Moreau: ack dgarijo ←
15:21:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:21:43 <tlebo> dgarijo: jun pointed out Resource concept should be broader. We should keep narrower definition of "Resource".
Daniel Garijo: jun pointed out Resource concept should be broader. We should keep narrower definition of "Resource". ←
15:21:55 <tlebo> 'Web resource"
'Web resource" ←
15:21:57 <martin> +q
Martin Doerr: +q ←
15:22:24 <Luc> ack martin
Luc Moreau: ack martin ←
15:22:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa] ←
15:22:42 <tlebo> martin: resources are digital (e.g. web resource)
Martin Doerr: resources are digital (e.g. web resource) ←
15:22:51 <tlebo> -1 for scoping the Resource to digital items.
-1 for scoping the Resource to digital items. ←
15:22:53 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:22:56 <satya> It may also be non-digital resource also
Satya Sahoo: It may also be non-digital resource also ←
15:23:02 <paulo_> q+
15:23:03 <zednik> -1 for treating resources as web resources
Stephan Zednik: -1 for treating resources as web resources ←
15:23:36 <tlebo> martin: Resource State is not clearly defined for digital object; it does not have linear sequence of states; it has versions and derivatives.
Martin Doerr: Resource State is not clearly defined for digital object; it does not have linear sequence of states; it has versions and derivatives. ←
15:23:49 <Zakim> +??P57
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P57 ←
15:24:10 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:24:16 <martin> q?
Martin Doerr: q? ←
15:24:40 <tlebo> RDF working group, "Resource" is conceptual.
RDF working group, "Resource" is conceptual. ←
15:24:45 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:25:10 <tlebo> Ppinheir2: [poor voice connection]
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: [poor voice connection] ←
15:25:20 <Luc> ack paulo_
Luc Moreau: ack paulo_ ←
15:25:23 <tlebo> Ppinheir2: do we need an additional definition of resource?
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: do we need an additional definition of resource? ←
15:25:40 <Luc> ack smiles
Luc Moreau: ack smiles ←
15:25:48 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:26:03 <jcheney> +q
James Cheney: +q ←
15:26:16 <martin> q?
Martin Doerr: q? ←
15:26:30 <tlebo> smiles: agree with paulo_ that we should define what we need from "Resource"
Simon Miles: agree with paulo_ that we should define what we need from "Resource" ←
15:26:38 <jun> -1 scoping our focus to digital objects
Jun Zhao: -1 scoping our focus to digital objects ←
15:26:47 <pgroth> agree with jun
Paul Groth: agree with jun ←
15:27:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:27:08 <martin> q?
Martin Doerr: q? ←
15:27:13 <tlebo> smiles: not good idea to restrict to web resources/ digital resources. derivation: provenance is part of provenance of another. we want to say a digital artifact is the result of a physical process / object.
Simon Miles: not good idea to restrict to web resources/ digital resources. derivation: provenance is part of provenance of another. we want to say a digital artifact is the result of a physical process / object. ←
15:27:15 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:27:24 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:27:58 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:28:00 <tlebo> pgroth: we need to fit with web architecture, which has limits. should our Resource be a broader notion of web's Resource?
Paul Groth: we need to fit with web architecture, which has limits. should our Resource be a broader notion of web's Resource? ←
15:28:00 <Luc> ack jcheney
Luc Moreau: ack jcheney ←
15:28:15 <martin> i agree with tlebo
Martin Doerr: i agree with tlebo ←
15:28:53 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:29:04 <martin> q?
Martin Doerr: q? ←
15:29:15 <pgroth> interesting idea
Paul Groth: interesting idea ←
15:29:30 <tlebo> jcheney: what are the consequences of fixing a definition? we can then say what is or what isn't. we should focus on what we NEED to assume about the concepts rather than mapping them all out.
James Cheney: what are the consequences of fixing a definition? we can then say what is or what isn't. we should focus on what we NEED to assume about the concepts rather than mapping them all out. ←
15:29:38 <pgroth> more of a extensional definition
Paul Groth: more of a extensional definition ←
15:30:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:30:05 <tlebo> jcheney: list has been saying "we don't care what a Resource is as long as it has a URI"
James Cheney: list has been saying "we don't care what a Resource is as long as it has a URI" ←
15:30:14 <martin> this is problematic
Martin Doerr: this is problematic ←
15:30:24 <satya> I agree - if we need to describe provenance of something - that is a resource
Satya Sahoo: I agree - if we need to describe provenance of something - that is a resource ←
15:30:25 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:30:39 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:30:40 <satya> so a necessary condition rather than sufficient
Satya Sahoo: so a necessary condition rather than sufficient ←
15:30:47 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:30:52 <jun> q+
15:30:55 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
15:31:07 <jorn> Zakim, ??p37 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p37 is me ←
15:31:07 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:31:14 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:31:19 <tlebo> satya: an entity of interest to describe provenance - it is a Resource. we are not limiting ourselves with this kind of def.
Satya Sahoo: an entity of interest to describe provenance - it is a Resource. we are not limiting ourselves with this kind of def. ←
15:31:33 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
15:31:42 <pgroth> q+ to respond to satya
Paul Groth: q+ to respond to satya ←
15:31:54 <tlebo> satya: regarding compatible with web arch being restricting - what is web architecture, and why be compatible with it?
Satya Sahoo: regarding compatible with web arch being restricting - what is web architecture, and why be compatible with it? ←
15:31:56 <martin> q?
Martin Doerr: q? ←
15:32:02 <Zakim> -Edoardo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Edoardo ←
15:32:19 <Luc> can someone paste the link to the web architecture document?
Luc Moreau: can someone paste the link to the web architecture document? ←
15:32:20 <tlebo> pgroth: web architecture definitions "Resource" in web context means something particular.
Paul Groth: web architecture definitions "Resource" in web context means something particular. ←
15:32:30 <GK> <cough> *WHY BE COMPATIBLE WITH WEB ARCHITECTURE"? This is a w3C WG.
Graham Klyne: <cough> *WHY BE COMPATIBLE WITH WEB ARCHITECTURE"? This is a w3C WG. ←
15:32:38 <jcheney> web architecture == http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/ ?
James Cheney: web architecture == http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/ ? ←
15:32:42 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:32:58 <Zakim> +??P55
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P55 ←
15:32:59 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
15:32:59 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to respond to satya
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to respond to satya ←
15:33:05 <tlebo> pgroth: we should ensure our terms are compatible with web architecture, and if we reuse the terms with different definitions, we need to be clear about it.
Paul Groth: we should ensure our terms are compatible with web architecture, and if we reuse the terms with different definitions, we need to be clear about it. ←
15:33:34 <zednik> conceptual model != architecture
Stephan Zednik: conceptual model != architecture ←
15:33:34 <tlebo> satya: what is compatible in web architecture is evolving (e.g. UniProt's RDF wasn't available years ago).
Satya Sahoo: what is compatible in web architecture is evolving (e.g. UniProt's RDF wasn't available years ago). ←
15:33:35 <pgroth> but that's not our remit
Paul Groth: but that's not our remit ←
15:33:44 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:33:48 <Edoardo> Zakim, I am ??P55
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: Zakim, I am ??P55 ←
15:33:49 <Zakim> +Edoardo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Edoardo; got it ←
15:33:49 <Luc> ack jun
Luc Moreau: ack jun ←
15:34:14 <tlebo> just becuase it didn't have a resolvable URI on the web, doesn't mean it's not already a resource (w.r.t the Uniprot's genes, etc)
just becuase it didn't have a resolvable URI on the web, doesn't mean it's not already a resource (w.r.t the Uniprot's genes, etc) ←
15:34:31 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:34:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:42 <martin> ack jun
Martin Doerr: ack jun ←
15:35:25 <martin> q+
Martin Doerr: q+ ←
15:35:26 <zednik> +q
Stephan Zednik: +q ←
15:35:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:35:31 <tlebo> jun: just be clear about our terms vs. web architecture's term - we just need a placeholder
Jun Zhao: just be clear about our terms vs. web architecture's term - we just need a placeholder ←
15:35:34 <paulo_> q+
15:35:50 <pgroth> we can introduce terms
Paul Groth: we can introduce terms ←
15:35:54 <jcheney> AWWW sec. 2.2 says: "We do not limit the scope of what might be a resource."
James Cheney: AWWW sec. 2.2 says: "We do not limit the scope of what might be a resource." ←
15:36:00 <jun> q-
15:36:03 <Luc> ack
Luc Moreau: ack ←
15:36:04 <tlebo> +1 on not continuing Resource discussion - w3 gave us this already.
+1 on not continuing Resource discussion - w3 gave us this already. ←
15:36:07 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:14 <Luc> ack khalidbelhajjame
Luc Moreau: ack khalidbelhajjame ←
15:36:16 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:37:01 <Luc> ack martin
Luc Moreau: ack martin ←
15:37:02 <tlebo> khalad... : resource state, resource state representation - what do we refer to when we describe provenance - THIS is more helpful. NOT "Resource"
khalad... : resource state, resource state representation - what do we refer to when we describe provenance - THIS is more helpful. NOT "Resource" ←
15:37:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:37:43 <satya> +1 for khalid's point
Satya Sahoo: +1 for khalid's point ←
15:38:14 <tlebo> martin: we need to distinguish among Resource. information objects behave differently than physical objects. Definition should not be so wide that we don't know what we're talking about. It should be enough to distinguish between physical and digital resource.
Martin Doerr: we need to distinguish among Resource. information objects behave differently than physical objects. Definition should not be so wide that we don't know what we're talking about. It should be enough to distinguish between physical and digital resource. ←
15:38:28 <Luc> ack zednik
Luc Moreau: ack zednik ←
15:38:49 <pgroth> but then we then need to use different terms
Paul Groth: but then we then need to use different terms ←
15:38:50 <smiles> +1 for Stephan's point
Simon Miles: +1 for Stephan's point ←
15:38:58 <Luc> ack paulo_
Luc Moreau: ack paulo_ ←
15:38:59 <martin> +1
Martin Doerr: +1 ←
15:39:00 <tlebo> zednik: conceptual model of provenance might not be the place for Web arch's Resource.
Stephan Zednik: conceptual model of provenance might not be the place for Web arch's Resource. ←
15:39:03 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
15:39:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:39:43 <martin> -1
Martin Doerr: -1 ←
15:39:52 <pgroth> paulo_ PML uses IdentifiedThing
Paul Groth: paulo_ PML uses IdentifiedThing ←
15:39:57 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
15:40:06 <GK> @zednik - maybe so, but to do need to know where it touches web resource
Graham Klyne: @zednik - maybe so, but to do need to know where it touches web resource ←
15:40:10 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:40:13 <tlebo> paulo_: provenance is in the digital world but is about things in physical world. scientific processes inherently span these.
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: provenance is in the digital world but is about things in physical world. scientific processes inherently span these. ←
15:40:17 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:40:21 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:40:35 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:40:42 <tlebo> In the web arch, doesn't 303 redirection handle the digital/physical distinction?
In the web arch, doesn't 303 redirection handle the digital/physical distinction? ←
15:40:55 <martin> digital objects can be at different places at the same time. that makes a big diff to physical things
Martin Doerr: digital objects can be at different places at the same time. that makes a big diff to physical things ←
15:41:13 <YolandaGil> q?
Yolanda Gil: q? ←
15:41:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:41:19 <tlebo> digital objects CANNOT be in different places at the same time. cf FRBR.
digital objects CANNOT be in different places at the same time. cf FRBR. ←
15:41:20 <YolandaGil> q+
Yolanda Gil: q+ ←
15:41:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:41:42 <tlebo> pgroth: term Resource in web arch is aligned with what we are talking about.
Paul Groth: term Resource in web arch is aligned with what we are talking about. ←
15:41:44 <jun> +1 pgroth, web architecture allows to make a broad statement about resource
Jun Zhao: +1 pgroth, web architecture allows to make a broad statement about resource ←
15:41:52 <Luc> ack YolandaGil
Luc Moreau: ack YolandaGil ←
15:43:11 <stain> +1 for yolanda's point of timestamp
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 for yolanda's point of timestamp ←
15:43:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:43:51 <tlebo> YolandaGil: Resource is the hardest to define of the 17. list concepts that are fundamentally different. accessing a UR_L_ at different times returns different digital objects. Let's establish the base of terms we need to discuss (e.g. 7/17)
Yolanda Gil: Resource is the hardest to define of the 17. list concepts that are fundamentally different. accessing a UR_L_ at different times returns different digital objects. Let's establish the base of terms we need to discuss (e.g. 7/17) ←
15:43:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:44:46 <tlebo> luc: take this to the mailing list (!)
Luc Moreau: take this to the mailing list (!) ←
15:44:51 <martin> +1
Martin Doerr: +1 ←
15:45:01 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:45:04 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:45:07 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:45:07 <jcheney> +1
James Cheney: +1 ←
15:45:10 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
15:45:10 <paulo_> +1
15:45:13 <Edoardo> +1
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: +1 ←
15:45:15 <martin> q+
Martin Doerr: q+ ←
15:45:16 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:45:23 <jun> +1
15:45:34 <smiles> OK :)
Simon Miles: OK :) ←
15:45:42 <Edoardo> Yes
Edoardo (Edoardo_and_David) Pignotti: Yes ←
15:45:43 <tlebo> luc: +1s are on the hook for mailing the list
Luc Moreau: +1s are on the hook for mailing the list ←
15:45:43 <GK> I kinda agree with what Yolanda said ... if we leave "resource" wide open, and look at the things we need to express, if a need emerges to say something more specific we'll have a better idea what that is.
Graham Klyne: I kinda agree with what Yolanda said ... if we leave "resource" wide open, and look at the things we need to express, if a need emerges to say something more specific we'll have a better idea what that is. ←
15:45:55 <GK> +1 to mailing list :)
Graham Klyne: +1 to mailing list :) ←
15:46:01 <tlebo> [] < who
[] < who ←
15:46:03 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:46:04 <GK> Hooked!
Graham Klyne: Hooked! ←
15:46:16 <jun> I think Yolanda just said what I wanted to say in a much better way :)
Jun Zhao: I think Yolanda just said what I wanted to say in a much better way :) ←
15:46:21 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:46:47 <martin> q+
Martin Doerr: q+ ←
15:46:52 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:46:53 <tlebo> group agrees that the relationships among the terms can reinforce the terms definitions.
group agrees that the relationships among the terms can reinforce the terms definitions. ←
15:47:08 <jorn> Zakim, ??p14 is me
Jörn Hees: Zakim, ??p14 is me ←
15:47:08 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:47:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:47:53 <Luc> ack martin
Luc Moreau: ack martin ←
15:48:15 <tlebo> martin: e.g. file downloaded from web. at the moment on the server. is it the content of the disk (whcih can be destroyed) or is it the sum of all copies. if you change one copy, how does it affect the rest of it.
Martin Doerr: e.g. file downloaded from web. at the moment on the server. is it the content of the disk (whcih can be destroyed) or is it the sum of all copies. if you change one copy, how does it affect the rest of it. ←
15:48:16 <paulo_> q+
15:48:31 <tlebo> martin: physical - changing it is permanent. and thus linear
Martin Doerr: physical - changing it is permanent. and thus linear ←
15:48:59 <Luc> ack paulo_
Luc Moreau: ack paulo_ ←
15:49:16 <tlebo> luc: we extract notions of Resource from these examples (per Yolanda)
Luc Moreau: we extract notions of Resource from these examples (per Yolanda) ←
15:49:38 <pgroth> hmmm.... I thought IdentifiedThing == Resource
Paul Groth: hmmm.... I thought IdentifiedThing == Resource ←
15:49:40 <pgroth> in PML
Paul Groth: in PML ←
15:50:14 <martin> +1
Martin Doerr: +1 ←
15:50:16 <GK> @martin, difficult to fully understand your point from the IRC log, but I'd say each instance (or item in FRBR terms) is a separate "resource" for provenance purposes.
Graham Klyne: @martin, difficult to fully understand your point from the IRC log, but I'd say each instance (or item in FRBR terms) is a separate "resource" for provenance purposes. ←
15:50:23 <tlebo> paulo_: break apart "file" with some properties like where it is located, vs. it is also a "Content container" - need to distinguish content from container.
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: break apart "file" with some properties like where it is located, vs. it is also a "Content container" - need to distinguish content from container. ←
15:50:41 <martin> @GK sure
Martin Doerr: @GK sure ←
15:51:03 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:51:04 <tlebo> paulo_: FRBR's work, expression, manifestation, and item
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: FRBR's work, expression, manifestation, and item ←
15:51:35 <pgroth> +q
Paul Groth: +q ←
15:51:39 <dgarijo> a version wouldn't be a state representation of a resource?
Daniel Garijo: a version wouldn't be a state representation of a resource? ←
15:51:39 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:51:43 <tlebo> paulo_: version is another term related to Resource. Resource cannot be monolithic.
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: version is another term related to Resource. Resource cannot be monolithic. ←
15:51:53 <martin> @tlebo item is the physical level
Martin Doerr: @tlebo item is the physical level ←
15:52:00 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:52:22 <tlebo> @martin agreed on physicality of items.
@martin agreed on physicality of items. ←
15:52:29 <martin> +1
Martin Doerr: +1 ←
15:52:40 <satya> @GK: instances may also not be separate resources for provenance purposes - E.g. provenance of all instances of class "human" involves "date of birth"
Satya Sahoo: @GK: instances may also not be separate resources for provenance purposes - E.g. provenance of all instances of class "human" involves "date of birth" ←
15:52:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:52:50 <zednik> Web Resource State = FRBR Expression
Stephan Zednik: Web Resource State = FRBR Expression ←
15:52:50 <tlebo> pgroth: we can be guided by charter, but are not constrained by it.
Paul Groth: we can be guided by charter, but are not constrained by it. ←
15:53:11 <zednik> Web Resource State Representation == FRBR Manifestation?
Stephan Zednik: Web Resource State Representation == FRBR Manifestation? ←
15:53:28 <martin> @satya categorical descriptions are even more fuzzy.
Martin Doerr: @satya categorical descriptions are even more fuzzy. ←
15:53:33 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:54:14 <tlebo> paulo_: parts of process hidden that might come up later? e.g. versioning, physical copies.
Paulo Pinheiro da Silva: parts of process hidden that might come up later? e.g. versioning, physical copies. ←
15:54:26 <GK> @satya Not quite sure your point. Agree that instances may be related, maybe share provenenace. But don't see that means we need to treat every "resource" as complex, stateful thing.
Graham Klyne: @satya Not quite sure your point. Agree that instances may be related, maybe share provenenace. But don't see that means we need to treat every "resource" as complex, stateful thing. ←
15:54:28 <martin> q+
Martin Doerr: q+ ←
15:54:36 <Luc> ack martin
Luc Moreau: ack martin ←
15:55:02 <satya> @martin by categorical description you mean (ontology) class?
Satya Sahoo: @martin by categorical description you mean (ontology) class? ←
15:55:27 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:33 <tlebo> martin: museum and ontology for FRBR world. distinction of material object and conceptual level (e.g. Work) - no more than 2(?)
Martin Doerr: museum and ontology for FRBR world. distinction of material object and conceptual level (e.g. Work) - no more than 2(?) ←
15:55:37 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:55:44 <Luc> ack smiles
Luc Moreau: ack smiles ←
15:55:51 <tlebo> @martin - did you intend to say only 2 levels?
@martin - did you intend to say only 2 levels? ←
15:56:05 <martin> @satya I mean how a set of items behaves collectively
Martin Doerr: @satya I mean how a set of items behaves collectively ←
15:56:21 <YolandaGil> Luc, Paul: Sorry I was not on the IRC before: I can definitely do the Provenance Incubator presentation next Friday at 8am PDT
Yolanda Gil: Luc, Paul: Sorry I was not on the IRC before: I can definitely do the Provenance Incubator presentation next Friday at 8am PDT ←
15:56:25 <tlebo> smiles: mutable things vs immutable things. replicable things vs. unique things. (digital resource copied)
Simon Miles: mutable things vs immutable things. replicable things vs. unique things. (digital resource copied) ←
15:56:28 <satya> @gk I agree - how we treat "resource" is mostly driven by requirements of the application in question
Satya Sahoo: @gk I agree - how we treat "resource" is mostly driven by requirements of the application in question ←
15:56:35 <zednik> @martin - FRBR recognizes 4 distinct levels of entities - 3 are conceptual
Stephan Zednik: @martin - FRBR recognizes 4 distinct levels of entities - 3 are conceptual ←
15:56:39 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:56:48 <pgroth> Thanks Yolanda!
Paul Groth: Thanks Yolanda! ←
15:57:10 <martin> @zednik discuss by e-mail...
Martin Doerr: @zednik discuss by e-mail... ←
15:57:28 <tlebo> luc: lots of good ideas and points, they need to be expanded on mailing list and wiki to be discussed properly.
Luc Moreau: lots of good ideas and points, they need to be expanded on mailing list and wiki to be discussed properly. ←
15:57:38 <tlebo> luc: please post to mailing list or wiki.
Luc Moreau: please post to mailing list or wiki. ←
15:57:41 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:58:06 <satya> @martin ok - behavior of set of items can also be used to group together items?
Satya Sahoo: @martin ok - behavior of set of items can also be used to group together items? ←
15:58:12 <tlebo> Yolanda next Friday 8am PDT
Yolanda next Friday 8am PDT ←
15:58:12 <GK> I think FRBR is like ISO 7-layer model. Useful as a way of teasing apart concepts, but not every case where some of the concepts apply neatly divides into all named levels.
Graham Klyne: I think FRBR is like ISO 7-layer model. Useful as a way of teasing apart concepts, but not every case where some of the concepts apply neatly divides into all named levels. ←
15:58:17 <tlebo> bye bye!
bye bye! ←
15:58:18 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←
15:58:19 <Zakim> -SatyaSahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -SatyaSahoo ←
15:58:19 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
15:58:20 <Zakim> - +1.915.747.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.915.747.aadd ←
15:58:20 <Zakim> -frew
Zakim IRC Bot: -frew ←
15:58:20 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
15:58:23 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:58:24 <Zakim> -jun
Zakim IRC Bot: -jun ←
15:58:26 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
15:58:28 <Zakim> -??P57
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P57 ←
15:58:30 <Zakim> -??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P28 ←
15:58:35 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
15:58:37 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
15:58:39 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
15:58:40 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
15:58:42 <Zakim> -zednik
Zakim IRC Bot: -zednik ←
15:58:43 <stain> btw - how do you get a name with Zakim?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: btw - how do you get a name with Zakim? ←
15:58:44 <Zakim> -??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4 ←
15:58:47 <Zakim> - +30281039aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +30281039aacc ←
15:58:47 <GK> Bye. I'll try and get my VOIP client sorted for next time.
Graham Klyne: Bye. I'll try and get my VOIP client sorted for next time. ←
15:58:49 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: -SamCoppens ←
15:58:53 <Zakim> -Edoardo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Edoardo ←
15:58:57 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
15:58:59 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:59:10 <stain> GK, used Blink today (first time) - all right
Stian Soiland-Reyes: GK, used Blink today (first time) - all right ←
15:59:18 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:59:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
15:59:36 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
15:59:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:59:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, frew, tlebo, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, jun, jorn, khalidbelhajjame, VinhNguyen, Yolanda, +1.213.290.aabb,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, smiles, +1.518.276.aaaa, frew, tlebo, dgarijo, SatyaSahoo, jun, jorn, khalidbelhajjame, VinhNguyen, Yolanda, +1.213.290.aabb, ←
15:59:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
15:59:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
15:59:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
15:59:38 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-actions.rdf : ←
15:59:38 <RRSAgent> ACTION: luc to ask w3 about invited experts. [1]
ACTION: luc to ask w3 about invited experts. [1] ←
15:59:38 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-irc#T15-05-47
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/26-prov-irc#T15-05-47 ←
15:59:40 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller], zednik, +30281039aacc, +1.915.747.aadd, jcheney, Yogesh, SamCoppens, Edoardo
Zakim IRC Bot: ... [IPcaller], zednik, +30281039aacc, +1.915.747.aadd, jcheney, Yogesh, SamCoppens, Edoardo ←
15:59:42 <GK> @stain, that on Mac?
Graham Klyne: @stain, that on Mac? ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2011-05-31 15:06:43 UTC by 'unknown', comments: 'Edoardo nickname changed'