See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 08 April 2010
<kford> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html
<kford> zakim drip item 5
<kford> I entered the agenda
<scribe> scribe: allanj
<kford> Zakim: zakim, code?
<scribe> scribenick: allanj
js: discussion of f2f in lyon. deadline in april 16
kf: poses question?
gl: how many can go, how much work without a quorum
sh: will be in orlando.
kf: put on list and resolve for next week.
gl: also conference calling.
<scribe> ACTION: js to write to list about f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Write to list about f2f [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].
kf: who can go
jim, mark, jeanne, greg, kelly(?)
action-343 closed
<trackbot> ACTION-343 Write to list about f2f closed
sh: if meeting in later part of week, could call in.
<scribe> ACTION: jallan to complete f2f survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Complete f2f survey [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20100406/results
discussion of 3.3.2 (AA)
gl: needs work, not understandable.
sh: if UA generates internal representation to display, it needs to share with the user or AT
gl: how is this to be exposed. some alternative interface?
sh: if some internal representation not in the dom, the UA generates some representation, needs to expose it.
mh: exposed how? example
sh: could put in the dom. some plugins don't have a dom, but could put it in the html dom
gl: exposing for AT not visually
sh: yes for AT, so the visual
representation is exposed to the AT
... music files, just flat information separated by colon or
dash. when open in winamp the player creates a navigable
structure based on title, author, length, etc.
<Greg> Sounds like Simon intends this to mean that any hierarchical relationship rendered visually must be exposed programmatically. It can be exposed via the DOM or other means. This applies to relationships that the UA works out on its own as well those that are specified in the source document.
<Greg> (I should have said "rendered" rather than "rendered visually".)
sh: html5 allows new datatypes or semantics needs to expose
<scribe> ACTION: sh to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - sh
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sharper, shayes)
<scribe> ACTION: sharper to rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-345 - Rewrite 3.3.2 (include canvas example) [on Simon Harper - due 2010-04-15].
<kford> Patrick comment the distinction between option and ability here is going in the right direction, but i fear that still means that a browser/UA needs to effectively have
<kford> to be able to do the opposite (i.e. keep size of rendered text the same, regardless of scaling) which again i don't think is implemented. the current behaviour
<kford> (that by default size distinction is maintained on rescaling) is default, so saying that the user has the ability also seems to imply that we'd want this
<kford> default behaviour to be switchable?
<kford> Kelly Ford
kf: what does this mean?
gl: when you want to make the small text big, the big text can become too big to be unusable
mh: if I look at 3.6.2 in
isolation - 'preserved distinctions' does the user also have
the ability to NOT preserve disctintions
... need some statement to remove all distinctions based on
size
gl: in the SC or implementation
mh: in the SC. how important to remove distinctions.
gl: this is covered in 3.6.x in the survey.
mh: need to clarify in intent about setting min/max to be the same to remove distinctions
kf: there is zoom (scale
everything) and textsize (scale only text)
... can set base text size.3.6.2 is important. distinctions are
important. how important is setting everything to same
size.
gl: if low vision, then headings will be too large to read
JA: also implementation issues. does any browser do this---all one font size?
kf: back to original 3.6.2. if in
isolation, MH you ok with it.
... gl wording change
<KimPatch> I think within is clearer
<scribe> ACTION: js to add "3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: The user has the ability to preserve distinctions in the size of rendered text when that text is rescaled (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text) within absolute limitations imposed by the platform. (Level A)" to draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-346 - Add "3.6.2 Preserve Distinctions: The user has the ability to preserve distinctions in the size of rendered text when that text is rescaled (e.g., headers continue to be larger than body text) within absolute limitations imposed by the platform. (Level A)" to draft [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].
<scribe> ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.6.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-347 - Write IER for 3.6.2 [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-04-15].
kf: want user to have ability to remove disctintions
gl: new wording is more flexible allows setting of min/max
js: different between base in percentages, the jump in size is greater as you get larger
kf: objections from 3.6.2 are
related 3.6.x
... should this be a AAA.
gl: would prefer AA, but can live with the group decision.
mh: ok with it as a AA. explain issues in the intent and it would address my concerns
<scribe> ACTION: ja to write to the list about 3.6.x address concerns in the implementation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-348 - Write to the list about 3.6.x address concerns in the implementation [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
gl: my comments are to add clarity
mh: see where it would fit.
<scribe> ACTION: JS add 3.8.1 IER "The objective of these success criteria is to allow the user to customize the specified speech characteristics to settings that allow the user to perceive and understand the audio information. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-349 - Add 3.8.1 IER "The objective of these success criteria is to allow the user to customize the specified speech characteristics to settings that allow the user to perceive and understand the audio information. [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].
Users may need to increase the volume to a level within their range of perception for example. Users may also wish to increase the rate of synthesized speech presentation because they can understand it at a rate faster than the default setting of the user agent.
Success criterion 3.8.1 covers the characteristics that users most commonly need to adjust and that are adjustable in most technologies, while success criterion 3.8.2 covers characteristics that are less widely altered and less widely supported.
to implementation draft.
<scribe> new proposal 3.1.3 3.1.3 Choose and Render Alternative Content: The user can determine which forms of alternative content are available for an element, select between them, and have them rendered according to the following…synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and...
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: visual tracks, and
non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, long descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered content.”.
kf: any objections?
none
<scribe> ACTION: js to update 3.1.3 to be "synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-350 - Update 3.1.3 to be "synchronized alternatives for time-based media (e.g., captions, audio descriptions, sign language) can be rendered at the same time as their associated audio tracks and visual tracks, and [on Jeanne Spellman - due 2010-04-15].
non-synchronized alternatives (e.g., short text alternatives, long descriptions) can be rendered as replacements for the original rendered content.
<scribe> ACTION: gl to write IER for 3.1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action10]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-351 - Write IER for 3.1.3 [on Greg Lowney - due 2010-04-15].
<scribe> ACTION: ja to write IER for 3.1.4 (modify 3.1.2) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action11]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-352 - Write IER for 3.1.4 (modify 3.1.2) [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
gl: can not understand this?
<Greg> Not sure what this is supposed to mean. Is it saying that the UA has to always keep the column header in view, even when the user is scrolling down through a table? The same with a heading elements (h1, etc.)?
<scribe> ACTION: kf to write IER for 3.3.1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action12]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-353 - Write IER for 3.3.1 [on Kelly Ford - due 2010-04-15].
<kford> zakim close item 3
<kford> zakim close item 3
kim: regularized definitions.
some may go away. need to review the document to make sure the
words in SC and GL match definitions
... also added new defintions, and normalized with ISO and ANSI
definitions
kf: need a survey for comments, then review document to reconcile
<scribe> ACTION: ja to put http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html in survey for next week [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html#action13]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-354 - Put http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2010JanMar/0135.html in survey for next week [on Jim Allan - due 2010-04-15].
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/porpses/proposal/ Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: AllanJ Found ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: +1.425.895.aaaa, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg, sharper, kford, MarkH, KimPatch Present: +1.425.895.aaaa Jim_Allan Jeanne Greg sharper kford MarkH KimPatch Found Date: 08 Apr 2010 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2010/04/08-ua-minutes.html People with action items: gl ja jallan js kf sh sharper[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]