None.
13:45:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/17-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/17-rdfa-irc ←
13:45:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:45:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
13:45:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 15 minutes ←
13:45:27 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
13:45:27 <trackbot> Date: 17 March 2011
13:45:33 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Mar/0076.html
13:45:34 <manu> Chair: Manu
13:45:37 <manu> Present: Benjamin, Ivan, Manu, Steven, Nathan, Knud, Toby
13:45:37 <manu> Regrets: Shane
14:00:16 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 14 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:00:23 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
14:00:26 <manu> zakim, I am ??P9
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P9 ←
14:00:26 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
14:01:10 <manu> zakim, mute me
Manu Sporny: zakim, mute me ←
14:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, manu, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, manu, muting is not permitted when only one person is present ←
14:01:36 <Zakim> +??P16
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16 ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> + +49.631.205.75.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.631.205.75.aaaa ←
14:01:45 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is me
Ivan Herman: zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:01:45 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan; got it ←
14:01:53 <Benjamin> zakim, I am aaaa
Benjamin Adrian: zakim, I am aaaa ←
14:01:54 <Zakim> sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named 'aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named 'aaaa' ←
14:02:13 <Benjamin> zakim, I am +49.631.205.75.aaaa
Benjamin Adrian: zakim, I am +49.631.205.75.aaaa ←
14:02:13 <Zakim> sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named '+49.631.205.75.aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Benjamin, I do not see a party named '+49.631.205.75.aaaa' ←
14:02:45 <Benjamin> zakim, I am ??P16
Benjamin Adrian: zakim, I am ??P16 ←
14:02:45 <Zakim> +Benjamin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Benjamin; got it ←
14:06:14 <Steven> zakim, phone steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, phone steven-617 ←
14:06:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
14:06:15 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
14:08:00 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +3539149aabb ←
14:08:51 <Zakim> sorry, Knud, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Knud, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
14:08:59 <ivan> scribenick: ivan
(Scribe set to Ivan Herman)
14:09:01 <Knud> zakim, I am aabb
Knud Möller: zakim, I am aabb ←
14:09:01 <Zakim> +Knud; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud; got it ←
14:09:05 <Knud> zakim , mute me
Knud Möller: zakim , mute me ←
14:09:09 <Steven> zakim, aabb is Knud
Steven Pemberton: zakim, aabb is Knud ←
14:09:09 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Steven, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb' ←
14:09:17 <ivan> zakim, mute Knud
zakim, mute Knud ←
14:09:17 <Zakim> Knud should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Knud should now be muted ←
14:09:35 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-120 HTML5 and RDFa and CURIEs
14:09:37 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue- 120-objection-poll/results
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue- 120-objection-poll/results ←
14:09:57 <ivan> manu: if anyone here is also in the HTML5 WG...
Manu Sporny: if anyone here is also in the HTML5 WG... ←
14:09:58 <Knud> no
Knud Möller: no ←
14:10:07 <ivan> ... put in your comment
... put in your comment ←
14:10:21 <Knud> I don't think anyone in DERI is in it
Knud Möller: I don't think anyone in DERI is in it ←
14:10:37 <ivan> ... anything else to discuss? We have new comments from Henri Sivonen and James Graham that we should review. Toby should respond to HTML WG, I'll remember to send a tweet out about responding.
... anything else to discuss? We have new comments from Henri Sivonen and James Graham that we should review. Toby should respond to HTML WG, I'll remember to send a tweet out about responding. ←
14:11:55 <manu> Topic: Overlap with RDF Working Group
14:12:13 <ivan> manu: currently we are having an in-depth discussion about json and rdf in json
Manu Sporny: currently we are having an in-depth discussion about json and rdf in json ←
14:12:17 <ivan> ... what it means, etc
... what it means, etc ←
14:12:33 <ivan> ... question came up on the alignment on the rdf(a) API
... question came up on the alignment on the rdf(a) API ←
14:12:46 <ivan> ... there is a call there to parse
... there is a call there to parse ←
14:12:54 <ivan> ... we would like to have the same
... we would like to have the same ←
14:13:07 <ivan> ... it would be good to have the two groups to get together and talk about it
... it would be good to have the two groups to get together and talk about it ←
14:13:18 <ivan> ... maybe this group should also discuss this
... maybe this group should also discuss this ←
14:13:33 <ivan> ... there are a number of people in the RDF wg who are interested in the api
... there are a number of people in the RDF wg who are interested in the api ←
14:13:43 <ivan> ... we may want to lean on them to join this group
... we may want to lean on them to join this group ←
14:14:04 <manu> Ivan: I would think that we should wait a bit, there will be a F2F in mid-April in A'dam
Ivan Herman: I would think that we should wait a bit, there will be a F2F in mid-April in A'dam [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:14:26 <manu> Ivan: I think that one of the goals will be to clarify the directions for both groups - the discussion in RDF WG is to understand the direction.
Ivan Herman: I think that one of the goals will be to clarify the directions for both groups - the discussion in RDF WG is to understand the direction. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:15:05 <manu> Ivan: All of the discussions are around that. I hope that the RDF WG will have a clearer view after mid-April - hopefully after that the synergies between the groups will be known a bit better
Ivan Herman: All of the discussions are around that. I hope that the RDF WG will have a clearer view after mid-April - hopefully after that the synergies between the groups will be known a bit better [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:15:55 <manu> Ivan: We'll have a clearer view of the intersection between the two groups. There are voices in the RDF WG for whom a JSON serialization is more N-Triples based in JSON. If that viewpoint prevails, there will be little overlap between that work and the work we're doing here.
Ivan Herman: We'll have a clearer view of the intersection between the two groups. There are voices in the RDF WG for whom a JSON serialization is more N-Triples based in JSON. If that viewpoint prevails, there will be little overlap between that work and the work we're doing here. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:16:06 <manu> Ivan: The F2F is on the 13th and 14th of April
Ivan Herman: The F2F is on the 13th and 14th of April [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:16:52 <ivan> manu: do you know if the group went the more 'object based json round', then the right people to do that work is not around in the WG
Manu Sporny: do you know if the group went the more 'object based json round', then the right people to do that work is not around in the WG ←
14:17:02 <ivan> ... is that true?
... is that true? ←
14:18:42 <manu> Ivan: It is true that we have you, Nathan, Thomas Steiner and possibly Toby as people that are involved in JSON and JavaScript development.
Ivan Herman: It is true that we have you, Nathan, Thomas Steiner and possibly Toby as people that are involved in JSON and JavaScript development. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:19:48 <manu> Ivan: Other than that, we may not have the proper people to complete this work. Finding out the direction and target community seems to be the most difficult thing for RDF in JSON.
Ivan Herman: Other than that, we may not have the proper people to complete this work. Finding out the direction and target community seems to be the most difficult thing for RDF in JSON. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:20:20 <manu> Ivan: Once that is decided, I have the impression that the JSON serialization is not rocket science...
Ivan Herman: Once that is decided, I have the impression that the JSON serialization is not rocket science... [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:20:45 <manu> Ivan: If we go JSON-LD - there are disagreements on the syntax, but nothing huge.
Ivan Herman: If we go JSON-LD - there are disagreements on the syntax, but nothing huge. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:21:08 <manu> Ivan: If we go the JTriples route, that's the Talis direction and disagreements on syntax are not that huge either
Ivan Herman: If we go the JTriples route, that's the Talis direction and disagreements on syntax are not that huge either [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:21:21 <ivan> Are there any other comments on how best to proceed with this work?
Are there any other comments on how best to proceed with this work? ←
14:21:23 <Benjamin> no
Benjamin Adrian: no ←
14:21:30 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-85: Projections and Property Groups
14:21:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-85 -- Determine whether both Projections and PropertyGroups are necessary -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-85 -- Determine whether both Projections and PropertyGroups are necessary -- open ←
14:21:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/85
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/85 ←
14:21:42 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/85
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/85 ←
14:23:02 <ivan> manu: based on our work we have experienced that having two different ways to describe the same confuses people and it is more complex than necessary
Manu Sporny: based on our work we have experienced that having two different ways to describe the same confuses people and it is more complex than necessary ←
14:23:18 <ivan> ... I believe we can do a unified version which is fairly clean
... I believe we can do a unified version which is fairly clean ←
14:23:31 <ivan> ... one concept that desribe RDF data in Javascript
... one concept that desribe RDF data in Javascript ←
14:23:54 <ivan> ... to access things via API or JSON should be the same
... to access things via API or JSON should be the same ←
14:23:55 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:24:31 <manu> Ivan: I'm concerned, how does JSON come into this picture.
Ivan Herman: I'm concerned, how does JSON come into this picture. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:24:56 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:25:08 <webr3> Zakim, i am IPcaller
Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am IPcaller ←
14:25:08 <Zakim> ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, webr3, I now associate you with [IPcaller] ←
14:26:13 <manu> Ivan: We have a RDFa API, that has a parser... I have a parser API, why do we have a RDF in JSON API as well?
Ivan Herman: We have a RDFa API, that has a parser... I have a parser API, why do we have a RDF in JSON API as well? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:26:47 <ivan> manu: the general idea that people would not have to have an heavyweight api for json
Manu Sporny: the general idea that people would not have to have an heavyweight api for json ←
14:26:51 <manu> var obj = rdfInJson.parse(jsonText);
Manu Sporny: var obj = rdfInJson.parse(jsonText); ←
14:27:39 <manu> { "name": "Ivan" }
Manu Sporny: { "name": "Ivan" } ←
14:27:43 <manu> obj.name
Manu Sporny: obj.name ←
14:27:49 <manu> obj.name == "Ivan"
Manu Sporny: obj.name == "Ivan" ←
14:28:32 <manu> var obj = rdfa.getItemsBySubject("http://example.org/people#ivan", { ... MAPPING ...});
Manu Sporny: var obj = rdfa.getItemsBySubject("http://example.org/people#ivan", { ... MAPPING ...}); ←
14:28:48 <manu> obj.name
Manu Sporny: obj.name ←
14:29:21 <manu> var obj = rdf.buildObject("http://example.org/people#ivan", { ... MAPPING ...});
Manu Sporny: var obj = rdf.buildObject("http://example.org/people#ivan", { ... MAPPING ...}); ←
14:29:23 <manu> obj.name
Manu Sporny: obj.name ←
14:30:28 <manu> Ivan: Ok, I understand - if the RDF WG decides that the only thing that they standardize is roughly the Talis JSON/RDF or JTriples
Ivan Herman: Ok, I understand - if the RDF WG decides that the only thing that they standardize is roughly the Talis JSON/RDF or JTriples [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:30:44 <manu> Ivan: rdfInJson.parse() should still be possible
Ivan Herman: rdfInJson.parse() should still be possible [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:31:20 <manu> Ivan: If I get my text as TURTLE, I should be able to get back the same type of "obj.name" stuff.
Ivan Herman: If I get my text as TURTLE, I should be able to get back the same type of "obj.name" stuff. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:32:01 <manu> Manu: Yes, but what do these objects look like?
Manu Sporny: Yes, but what do these objects look like? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:32:17 <manu> Ivan: JSON is a serialization, it's no different from TURTLE or RDF/XML
Ivan Herman: JSON is a serialization, it's no different from TURTLE or RDF/XML [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:33:30 <manu> obj.name
Manu Sporny: obj.name ←
14:33:40 <manu> obj.get("http://example.com/vocab#foo");
Manu Sporny: obj.get("http://example.com/vocab#foo"); ←
14:33:45 <manu> obj.get("ex:foo");
Manu Sporny: obj.get("ex:foo"); ←
14:34:19 <webr3> Nathan: PropertyGroup and Projection should be the same interface, with no .properties attribute, get() should be a setter, and we need .getSubject on there - to all extents a simple object with getSubject, nothing more
Nathan Rixham: PropertyGroup and Projection should be the same interface, with no .properties attribute, get() should be a getter, and we need .getSubject on there - to all extents a simple object with getSubject, nothing more [ Scribe Assist by Nathan Rixham ] ←
14:34:31 <manu> Manu: the focus is on the object that is returned - what is it? Is it a Projection, is it a Property Group, is it a Graph?
Manu Sporny: the focus is on the object that is returned - what is it? Is it a Projection, is it a Property Group, is it a Graph? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:34:35 <webr3> s/setter/getter
14:35:40 <ivan> manu: nathan, is the way that you say this will happen, if a person gives a mapping mechanism then you can create names on the object
Manu Sporny: nathan, is the way that you say this will happen, if a person gives a mapping mechanism then you can create names on the object ←
14:35:52 <ivan> ... and otherwise you can get them with a get mechanism
... and otherwise you can get them with a get mechanism ←
14:37:38 <ivan> nathan: all the properties with the object should be the shortest name that the rdf mechanism and the curie mechanism gives you
Nathan Rixham: all the properties with the object should be the shortest name that the rdf mechanism and the curie mechanism gives you ←
14:37:56 <ivan> manu: that was the same kind of thinking
Manu Sporny: that was the same kind of thinking ←
14:38:04 <ivan> ... what happens if there is no environment
... what happens if there is no environment ←
14:38:34 <ivan> ... would they be able to pass a mapping (eg, foaf name should be mapped to name)
... would they be able to pass a mapping (eg, foaf name should be mapped to name) ←
14:38:43 <ivan> ... people could also use the full URI
... people could also use the full URI ←
14:39:02 <manu> jsonText = { "name" : "Nathan" }
Manu Sporny: jsonText = { "name" : "Nathan" } ←
14:39:22 <manu> MAPPING = { "http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name" : "name" }
Manu Sporny: MAPPING = { "http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name" : "name" } ←
14:39:38 <manu> var obj = api.toObject(jsonText, MAPPING);
Manu Sporny: var obj = api.toObject(jsonText, MAPPING); ←
14:39:45 <manu> Then you should be able to do:
Manu Sporny: Then you should be able to do: ←
14:40:02 <manu> obj.name and obj["http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name"]
Manu Sporny: obj.name and obj["http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name"] ←
14:40:13 <manu> assume that you have an RDF environment
Manu Sporny: assume that you have an RDF environment ←
14:40:36 <manu> that environment specifies => { "foaf": "http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/" }
Manu Sporny: that environment specifies => { "foaf": "http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/" } ←
14:40:44 <manu> then you should be able to do this:
Manu Sporny: then you should be able to do this: ←
14:40:58 <manu> obj.name and obj["foaf:name"] and obj["http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name"]
Manu Sporny: obj.name and obj["foaf:name"] and obj["http://xmlns.com/0.1/foaf/name"] ←
14:41:28 <ivan> manu: nathan, is that what you were thinking about?
Manu Sporny: nathan, is that what you were thinking about? ←
14:41:34 <ivan> nathan: something like that
Nathan Rixham: something like that ←
14:41:51 <ivan> ... I was thinking of some sort of a profile object
... I was thinking of some sort of a profile object ←
14:42:02 <webr3> graph.toObject or api.toObject(graph) - with an optional attribute which you can pass in a profile
Nathan Rixham: graph.toObject or api.toObject(graph) - with an optional attribute which you can pass in a profile ←
14:42:10 <ivan> ... and that would replace the mapping that would be optional
... and that would replace the mapping that would be optional ←
14:44:33 <manu> Ivan: I'd like to see this stuff in writing, to understand it better
Ivan Herman: I'd like to see this stuff in writing, to understand it better [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:45:53 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/Overview-src.html
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-api/Overview-src.html ←
14:46:38 <manu> Nathan: We should clean up the editors drafts and start conversations from there.
Nathan Rixham: We should clean up the editors drafts and start conversations from there. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:46:44 <manu> Manu: I think that's a good idea.
Manu Sporny: I think that's a good idea. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:48:42 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-86: Prefixes and Terms
14:48:50 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/86
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/86 ←
14:50:36 <manu> Manu: Do we want to simplify this - instead of prefix and term, we use "mapping"?
Manu Sporny: Do we want to simplify this - instead of prefix and term, we use "mapping"? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:51:06 <Benjamin> I calle dit IriMap in my mail
Benjamin Adrian: I called it IriMap in my mail ←
14:52:16 <Benjamin> s/calle dit/called it
14:52:37 <ivan> q+
q+ ←
14:52:40 <manu> Ivan: We don't have the concept of relative URIs... we shouldn't have them.
Ivan Herman: We don't have the concept of relative URIs... we shouldn't have them. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:52:44 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
14:53:26 <manu> Ivan: One question/comment - I don't know how the other RDF environment handles this issue - it's the same, you have namespaces, but you can use it by itself - you can use it as a term or a prefix
Ivan Herman: One question/comment - I don't know how the other RDF environment handles this issue - it's the same, you have namespaces, but you can use it by itself - you can use it as a term or a prefix [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:53:47 <manu> Ivan: I don't know what Redland and the other systems do - we may want to follow those.
Ivan Herman: I don't know what Redland and the other systems do - we may want to follow those. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
14:54:41 <ivan> manu: the only thing that may block us is if nathan hit an issue while implementing
Manu Sporny: the only thing that may block us is if nathan hit an issue while implementing ←
14:55:55 <ivan> ... and checking other systems
... and checking other systems ←
14:56:02 <manu> ACTION: Nathan to contact RDF library authors to see how they handle term/prefix mappings.
ACTION: Nathan to contact RDF library authors to see how they handle term/prefix mappings. ←
14:56:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-70 - Contact RDF library authors to see how they handle term/prefix mappings. [on Nathan Rixham - due 2011-03-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-70 - Contact RDF library authors to see how they handle term/prefix mappings. [on Nathan Rixham - due 2011-03-24]. ←
14:59:58 <manu> tinkster, please note your position/objection here: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/issue-120-objection-poll/results
Manu Sporny: tinkster, please note your position/objection here: ISSUE-120-objection-poll/results">http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/ISSUE-120-objection-poll/results ←
15:00:28 <tinkster> Yes, I will do.
Toby Inkster: Yes, I will do. ←
15:00:28 <Zakim> -ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ivan ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:01:31 <Zakim> -Knud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#3) generated 2011-03-17 15:50:34 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Added Agenda'