IRC log of wai-wcag on 2008-04-04
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:03:01 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/04/04-wai-wcag-irc
- 15:03:16 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make logs member
- 15:03:21 [MichaelC]
- meeting: WCAG planning
- 15:03:47 [MichaelC]
- present: Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Michael_Cooper, Shadi_Abou-Zahra, Christophe_Strobbe
- 15:03:57 [MichaelC]
- regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden, Carlos_Valasquez
- 15:04:03 [MichaelC]
- scribe: MichaelC
- 15:04:23 [MichaelC]
- present- Carlos_Valasquez
- 15:04:30 [Zakim]
- +Ben
- 15:04:35 [MichaelC]
- present+ Carlos_Valasco
- 15:04:40 [MichaelC]
- present+ Ben_Caldwell
- 15:06:40 [MichaelC]
- saz: EC funded BenToWeb to work on benchmarking tools
- 15:07:26 [MichaelC]
- they have been working with us on test samples
- 15:07:43 [MichaelC]
- -> Status update from Christophe http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2008JanMar/0046.html
- 15:07:58 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/
- 15:08:31 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/process
- 15:08:46 [MichaelC]
- -> Repository of tests http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/
- 15:09:05 [MichaelC]
- -> TSDTF process http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/process
- 15:10:08 [MichaelC]
- spent time developing tests following these procedures
- 15:10:13 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
- 15:10:18 [MichaelC]
- Also worked on metadata for tests
- 15:10:35 [MichaelC]
- e.g., whether the test a passing or failing condition etc.
- 15:10:52 [MichaelC]
- -> Test Samples Metadata http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
- 15:11:30 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/tsdtf/TestSampleStatusList
- 15:11:50 [MichaelC]
- -> Wiki repository of test samples http://www.w3.org/2006/tsdtf/TestSampleStatusList
- 15:13:23 [MichaelC]
- have explored other options for the test harness
- 15:13:31 [MichaelC]
- also looked at Mobile Web test harnes
- 15:13:36 [MichaelC]
- s/harnes/harness
- 15:13:56 [MichaelC]
- One issue has been that since WCAG was changing, hard to keep up
- 15:14:04 [MichaelC]
- We have a repository of unreviewed test samples
- 15:14:09 [MichaelC]
- and WCAG seems to be stabalizing
- 15:14:24 [MichaelC]
- Do we want to keep structure of task force or look at other options for doing this work?
- 15:14:36 [MichaelC]
- Note BenToWeb project has ended, so reduced participation from that area
- 15:14:53 [MichaelC]
- Also, since BenToWeb people submitted tests, didn't think appropriate for them to review them
- 15:15:29 [MichaelC]
- cs: There are ~200 test samples, mostly mapped to May 2007 WD
- 15:15:36 [MichaelC]
- and some mapped to April 2006 WD
- 15:15:45 [MichaelC]
- There are also ~400 waiting to be uploaded
- 15:15:49 [MichaelC]
- also mapped to May 2007 WD
- 15:16:01 [MichaelC]
- so total of 609 in various states
- 15:16:15 [MichaelC]
- bc: relationship of those test samples to the techniques?
- 15:16:27 [MichaelC]
- cs: there is a mapping from test case to techniques
- 15:16:38 [MichaelC]
- don't have test cases for all techniques
- 15:16:45 [MichaelC]
- 239 test cases don't map to any techniques
- 15:17:42 [MichaelC]
- some of these were created before techniques were created
- 15:17:52 [MichaelC]
- many of them of failure techniques
- 15:18:39 [MichaelC]
- lgr: these test cases may be what we need for Accessibility Support evidence
- 15:19:22 [MichaelC]
- -> Message about SC without failure techniques http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2007Dec/0019.html
- 15:20:18 [Ben]
- Ben has joined #wai-wcag
- 15:20:34 [MichaelC]
- bc: might be able to use test cases as well as other things for the data gathering
- 15:20:49 [MichaelC]
- mc: test cases that state they should pass can be run through UAs to see if they do in fact
- 15:21:15 [MichaelC]
- cs: more than half of the test cases are for failure conditions
- 15:21:47 [MichaelC]
- don't know about relationship to accessibility support - some of this was developed when we had the baseline concept
- 15:22:40 [MichaelC]
- lgr: this might be only a starting point, then, but a huge start
- 15:22:59 [MichaelC]
- we're still trying to figure out to gather, record, and report on data about accessibility support
- 15:23:14 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/usingTCDL
- 15:23:16 [Zakim]
- -Ben
- 15:23:17 [Zakim]
- +??P21
- 15:23:36 [Ben]
- zakim, ??P21 is Ben
- 15:23:36 [Zakim]
- +Ben; got it
- 15:24:07 [MichaelC]
- saz: there's a lot of metadata availalbe to help
- 15:24:21 [MichaelC]
- lgr: need info about combinations of browsers and AT
- 15:24:34 [MichaelC]
- wouldn't necessarily capture with test file, but would be part of overall db
- 15:24:47 [MichaelC]
- cs: metadata has section for technologies used in test sample
- 15:24:50 [MichaelC]
- even specific features
- 15:25:11 [MichaelC]
- lgr: very helpful
- 15:26:17 [MichaelC]
- mc: so we've got a lot of resources
- 15:26:20 [MichaelC]
- still more to add
- 15:26:24 [MichaelC]
- and need to review/approve it all
- 15:26:32 [MichaelC]
- can use for accessibility support evidnece
- 15:27:17 [MichaelC]
- lgr: need to get them in W3C space
- 15:27:23 [MichaelC]
- and worry about persistence of resource
- 15:27:30 [MichaelC]
- saz: can post easily
- 15:27:39 [MichaelC]
- but what do we do with it from there
- 15:27:50 [MichaelC]
- would like a harness that's easier than a wiki
- 15:28:24 [MichaelC]
- that's a short-term project
- 15:28:32 [MichaelC]
- validating the test samples would be an ongoing project
- 15:28:42 [MichaelC]
- especially since we want people to submit test cases
- 15:29:00 [MichaelC]
- cs: (noted earlier most of the test cases are in English)
- 15:29:06 [MichaelC]
- lgr: would like test cases in other languages
- 15:29:26 [MichaelC]
- cs: some of the unsubmitted test cases still under review for certain structural things
- 15:31:04 [MichaelC]
- mc: ask about level of particpation in TSDTF given BenToWeb closed
- 15:31:15 [MichaelC]
- saz: now have only 3 regular contributors
- 15:31:18 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2006/tests/tests-tf
- 15:31:40 [MichaelC]
- -> TSDTF Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2006/tests/tests-tf
- 15:32:08 [MichaelC]
- Carlos Iglesias, Christophe Strobbe, Tim Boland are the main contributors
- 15:32:24 [MichaelC]
- Carlos Velasco, Shadi Abou-Zahra, Michael Cooper are peripheral contributors
- 15:33:07 [MichaelC]
- We're hoping as WCAG stabailizes that some WCAG resources can come into this work
- 15:33:56 [MichaelC]
- mc: Is it better to get people from WCAG WG into TF, or move TF into WCAG WG?
- 15:34:57 [MichaelC]
- saz: would be ok to dissolve TF and move to WCAG WG
- 15:35:05 [MichaelC]
- but also ok to work separately
- 15:35:24 [MichaelC]
- lgr: This is a big chunk, and there are other big chunks
- 15:35:34 [MichaelC]
- so the WG will be busy
- 15:35:53 [MichaelC]
- What is procedure if WG reviews test cases and rejects some?
- 15:36:03 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/tests/process
- 15:36:20 [MichaelC]
- saz: The review process is spelled out in the process document
- 15:36:31 [MichaelC]
- though it doesn't prescribe what WCAG WG would do
- 15:37:05 [MichaelC]
- substantial fixes would mean test case sent back to submitter, asked to edit and resubmit
- 15:38:05 [MichaelC]
- lgr: who are the submitters?
- 15:38:27 [MichaelC]
- saz: BenToWeb tests submitted in bulk, but also anticipate individual submissions in the future
- 15:39:01 [MichaelC]
- The BenToWeb tests all go to an email address, there will be someone at the other end
- 15:41:23 [MichaelC]
- mc: Exploring structure - TSDTF working separately has allowed focus, but low on radar of WCAG WG; within WCAG WG would be higher radar but harder to organize priorities
- 15:41:31 [MichaelC]
- bc: always a resource issue
- 15:42:26 [MichaelC]
- lgr: there has been some exploration of resources but unsure of tieline
- 15:43:12 [MichaelC]
- mc: would review of tests be doable during CR phase?
- 15:43:34 [MichaelC]
- lgr: hopefully; issues about availability of WG members to work on this
- 15:44:19 [MichaelC]
- saz: Joint with ERTWG means we have a different skillset available
- 15:45:31 [MichaelC]
- structural reviews can be done outside WCAG WG, just need a content review
- 15:46:06 [MichaelC]
- bc: ways to tie test samples to existing techniques?
- 15:47:47 [MichaelC]
- saz: would be useful to share example code etc.
- 15:48:02 [MichaelC]
- mc: should be able to automate references from techniques to applicable tests
- 15:48:35 [MichaelC]
- bc: issues around tests in various places that aren't clearly tied to techniques
- 15:48:59 [MichaelC]
- also there are tests that were published but not approved by WG, but URI persistence an issue
- 15:49:17 [MichaelC]
- cs: task force following a rule that every test sample must map to a technique
- 15:51:06 [MichaelC]
- -> Mapping to techniques and failures http://canada.esat.kuleuven.be/bentoweb/tsdtf/xhtml/index.html
- 15:51:20 [MichaelC]
- bc: concern about unapproved tests
- 15:51:29 [MichaelC]
- mc: TSDTF requires WCAG WG approval
- 15:51:35 [MichaelC]
- lgr: need a plan for WCAG review
- 15:52:07 [MichaelC]
- saz: need to get through the structural review stages as well
- 15:52:44 [MichaelC]
- working within WCAG WG would simplify procedure by a step
- 15:53:06 [MichaelC]
- staying in Task Force, we need to collect resources
- 15:54:02 [MichaelC]
- lgr: we need to do something about accessibility supported, undrafted sufficient techniques, reviewing implementations, respoinding to comments on implementations
- 15:54:29 [MichaelC]
- these are competing priorities
- 15:55:10 [MichaelC]
- what happens after WG approval?
- 15:55:44 [MichaelC]
- saz: we're not even really that far yet
- 15:57:36 [MichaelC]
- mc: Let's check in in two weeks
- 15:57:46 [MichaelC]
- MC and SAZ to float things around meanwhile
- 15:59:54 [MichaelC]
- Continue this discusison in the 25 April meeting (regrets: LGR)
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- -Shadi
- 16:00:26 [Zakim]
- -Christophe_Strobbe
- 16:00:27 [shadi]
- shadi has left #wai-wcag
- 16:00:29 [Christophe]
- Christophe has left #wai-wcag
- 16:15:55 [Zakim]
- -Cooper
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- -Ben
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- -Lgr
- 16:16:08 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG(plan)11:00AM has ended
- 16:16:09 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Cooper, Lgr, Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Ben
- 16:17:36 [MichaelC]
- scribeOptions: -scribeOnly -implicitContinuations -final
- 16:17:43 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 16:17:48 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:17:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/04/04-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
- 16:18:07 [Zakim]
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- 16:19:13 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, bye
- 16:19:13 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items