List of comments on “Techniques for WCAG 2.0” (dated 11 July 2013)

There are 7 comments (sorted by their types, and the section they are about).

general comment comments

Comment LC-2799: Commenter: Devarshi Pant <devarshipant@gmail.com> (archived message); Context: PDF17: Specifying consistent page numbering for PDF documents; Status:
assigned to Loretta Guarino Reid; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Technique “PDF17: Specifying consistent page numbering for PDF documents.”
Refer URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/PDF17

Problem:
Under Description, refer to the 4th paragraph that states how to navigate
using the page number toolbar, and specifically the sentence “In addition,
users can select the arrows to move one page up or down in the document.”
Proposed Change:
Users can also go to a desired page number using the shortcut key, “Ctrl +
Shift + N,” which is a standard keyboard command. Consider rephrasing /
adding this fact.

-Devarshi; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: [DONE] Add new paragraph at the end of the Description: A more direct way of going to a page is to use the shortcut for the View > Page Navigation > Page menu item. On Windows, this shortcut is "Ctrl + Shift + N"; on Mac OS, it is "Cmd + Shift + N". This brings up a dialog box to go to a specific page number.; Resolution: Response to Commenter: Thank you for his suggestion. We have added the following information to the Description for PDF17: A more direct way of going to a page is to use the shortcut for the View > Page Navigation > Page menu item. On Windows, this shortcut is "Ctrl + Shift + N"; on Mac OS, it is "Cmd + Shift + N". This brings up a dialog box to go to a specific page number.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

Comment LC-2800: PDF lists: Commenter: jonathanmetz@gmail.com (archived message); Context: PDF21: Using List tags for lists in PDF documents; Status:
assigned to Andrew Kirkpatrick; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Name: Jonathan Metz
Email: jonathanmetz@gmail.com
Affiliation: User
Document: TD
Item Number: PDF21
Part of Item: Examples
Comment Type: technical
Summary of Issue: Incorrect recommendation for dealing with List Elements in tagged PDF
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
The page suggests that using the list button on the ribbon as the "easiest way to ensure that lists are formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF". It doesn't actually, since Word throws the label element in with the <Lbody> in the tag tree whenever one exports a list from Word. The user always has to edit those elements in the tag tree later. It even goes so far as to show screenshots of what happens when you do that.

It provides the List Elements at the beginning of the technique, but fails to show the relevant usage for implementing them.

It provides no information about dealing with unordered lists or how such labels for them are optional.

It also does not clearly explain how a list is should appear properly structured.

Proposed Change:
1. Show how lists are properly structured.
2. Explain which tags are optional for which list type (ordered must be labeled, unordered is optional) and which tags are mandatory.
3. Show how to properly adjust tags in PDF to create said list first without the use of proprietary means (i.e. from Word/InDesign/etc).
4. Change text from " the easiest way to ensure that lists are formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF" to "easiest way to ensure that THE BASIS for list STRUCTURE is formatted correctly when they are converted to PDF."
5. Provide examples for how to fix the incorrect placement of the tags after exporting from Word (as the example writer); Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: This is an interesting one in that PDF/UA requires a more rigid structure than WCAG does. UA requires: L LI Lbl LBody LI Lbl LBody ... But as far as any user agent is concerned, the Lbl and LBody are optional.; Resolution: Thanks for the comment. We understand that at this time PDF/UA requires that lists are constructed with Lbl and LBody tags inside each LI tag, but we also understand that current technologies do not distinguish between LI tagged elements with this internal tag structure from those that do not. The changes that you propose are reasonable but given that there is no difference for the end user we will defer this work until there is a difference. If you are interested in contributing the changes you suggest then the working group will be able to review that submission to be included. It is also worth noting that techniques assume that users are familiar with the technology spec, and that the techniques contain a reference to the PDF spec to provide more details for people who need them.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

substantive comments

Comment LC-2791: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: Missing on-page description example: Commenter: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> (archived message); Context: H45: Using longdesc; Status:
assigned to Bruce Bailey; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
1. Title of the document

H45: Using longdesc

2. Location within the document

"Examples"
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#H45-examples

3. Concern

H45 is missing example longdesc syntax for an on-page description. If
the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users, keeping
it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for screen
reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option. That way
everyone can read it.

4. Suggested change

Add something like:

If the long text alternative of an image is useful to all users,
keeping it in plain view in the same document and using longdesc for
screen reader users to programmatically obtain it is a good option.
That way everyone can read it. By using a fragment identifier,
longdesc may be used to link to a description within the same
document. The syntax is:

<img
longdesc="#desc"
alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers"
src="http://www.company/images/graph.png">
<div id="desc">

<div>

4. Additional rationale for the comment

This technique is specified in the HTML5 Image Description Extension (longdesc).

Use Case:
"Linking to a description included within a page
If an image already has a description included within a page, making
the linkage explicit can provide further clarity for a user who is not
able to interpret the default layout. For example this happens when
users force a re-layout of the page elements because they have
magnified the content, or because they do not see the default visual
relationship between the element and its description.
This practice also enables description to be provided for all users.
By keeping the association clear the content maintainer can more
easily check that the description and link are actually correct."
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longdesc.htm#use-cases

Example:
http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/default/longdesc1/longdesc.html#intro

Please add an explanation and example to Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document H45.

Thank you.; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: AWK updated respoonse; Resolution: Thank you for your comment. The WG agrees that an example detailing this method may help people understand how this works and what limitations exist. We will add an additional paragraph to the description and example 2 will be added as follows: [DONE] description new second paragraph: Authors can provide a description for an image by including text in a separate resource or within the text of the page containing the image. An advantage of providing the description within the same page as the image is that all users can access the description. A limitation of this method, as well as in providing multiple descriptions on a single separate page, is that current implementations supporting longdesc read all text on the page that follows the start of the long description. As a result, an end user may hear the long description and all content on the page following it, without knowing where the long description is intended to end unless authors provide text to help users identify the end-point of the description. [DONE] Example 1: Using longdesc to refer to a long description contained on a separate resource. (title of example changed to clarify) [DONE] Example 2: Using longdesc to refer to a long description within the same page. <img longdesc="thispage.html#desc" alt="Line graph of the number of subscribers" src="http://www.company/images/graph.png"> <div id="desc">  <div>; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

Comment LC-2792: Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc: User agent support: Commenter: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> (archived message); Context: H45: Using longdesc; Status:
assigned to Joshue O Connor; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
1. Title of the document

Techniques for WCAG 2.0 H45 longdesc

2. Location within the document

"User Agent and Assistive Technology Support Notes"
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2.19.1

3. Concern

User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
improving. The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should say that, as it
does for ARIA. H45 should provide a full listing of support. There is
now new and improved validator support and more widespread
implementation (e.g. in Chrome Vox, NVDA, Firefox). This will lead
authors to make fewer errors and users to experience longdesc.

4. Suggested change

Please state that:

User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is
improving. A collection of tools that provide support for longdesc
exists.

And provide a full listing of support:

BROWSERS

Opera, Firefox, Chromium, and Internet Explorer all support longdesc
DOM reflection.
http://people.opera.com/philipj/2011/01/23/longdesc/

* As of Mozilla 25 Firefox has native support via the image context menu.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=877453
Firefox has accessibility API support.
https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/accessible/src/html/nsHTMLImageAccessible.cpp
Support for prior versions is supplied via:
* Longdesc Firefox Extension by Patrick H. Lauke, adds a "View Image
Longdesc" option to the image context menu that activates the link to
the long description.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesc/
* Longdesk 0.2 FireFox Extension by Anthony Ricaud, adds a link to
the longdesc under images that provides one.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/longdesk/

* It is anticipated that Chrome will be providing native support. "Now
that the spec has been published I think we can add it." - Dominic
Mazzoni
http://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/group/chromium-accessibility/browse_thread/thread/6542ed13863a8f2c#
Support for prior versions of Chrome is supplied via Longdesc plugin
by Chris Kennish, which "highlights and provides right-click access to
image long descriptions, where provided."
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/longdesc/haohljalgapbacpkfefnmhiadanhejmb

* iCab has native support of longdesc via a context-menu.
http://www.icab.de/

* Opera 1010b1 to Blink has native support of longdesc. Exposition of
the longdesc is exposed by a right click on the image for which the
longdesc has been defined.
http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/mac/1010b1/#ui
Support for prior versions of Opera is supplied via:
* TellMeMore Opera extension, which respects a web page's visual
design yet provides critical functionality. It will "Find things that
have more description available, and show them on demand. Where images
(or something else) have a longdesc attribute, the extension notifies
by changing its icon and title, and enables the user to see a list of
the descriptions available, in its popup. When the user selects an
item in the popup, a new window opens with the description in it."
https://addons.opera.com/en/extensions/details/tellmemore/

* Internet Explorer (IE)
* When used together with assistive technology such as Jaws, IE
makes longdesc accessible to the AT user.
* Configuring Internet Explorer to Handle Longdesc - Adds a context
menu entry to extract the longdesc attribute value and have the page
navigate to its content for sighted users. by Sean Hayes.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/accessibility/archive/2011/03/25/configuring-internet-explorer-to-handle-longdesc.aspx
* Longdesc Linker for Internet Explorer 6 - Browser Helper Object
which adds a "Long Description" item to the context menu that IE uses
for images.
http://www.hackcraft.net/longdesclink/

* Netscape 7.0 (rv:1.0.1 Gecko/20020823) supports the longdesc
attribute via the context menu.

* Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used in
Japan for longdesc, even though it stopped being maintained years ago.

* Long Description Favelet "announces the number of images with
longdesc attributes and provides links to the long description file in
each case." by James W. Thatcher. It works ubiquitously in Chrome,
FireFox, Internet Explorer, Safari, Opera, and iCab.
http://jimthatcher.com/favelets/

ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY

The following assistive technology informs users that an image has a
long description, at which point the user has the option of reading
the description or skipping it.

* Chromevox began supporting longdesc in version 1.26. It is announced
and can be activated with Cvox + C > D
http://www.chromevox.com/release_notes.html

* NVDA will now announce the existence of the long description, and a
user can press NVDA+d to open it.
http://community.nvda-project.org/ticket/809#comment:5

* JAWS Version 4.01 and up supports longdesc.
http://www.freedomscientific.com/fs_products/software_jaws401newfea.asp

* Adaptive Multimedia Information System (AMIS)
http://www.daisy.org/projects/amis

* AnyDaisy FF Extension
https://launchpad.net/daisyextension

* LookOUT in combination with WebbIE.
http://www.screenreader.net/

* Sense Reader Professional Edition v1.1.0.6 (KoreChromeVoxan)
http://www.haeppa.kr/?page=10

* SuperNova/Hal
http://www.yourdolphin.com/

* Thunder in combination with WebbIE.
http://www.screenreader.co.uk/product.php?shopprodid=1

* Window-Eyes
http://www.gwmicro.com/Window-Eyes/Manual/HTML/advanced.html

* Home Page Reader has native support of longdesc and is still used in
Japan for longdesc.

AUTHORING TOOLS

The following authoring tools support the longdesc attribute.

* AChecker
* AD Gallery
* Alt Text Checker
* Amaya
* A-Prompt
* ASP.NET
* BlueGriffon
* CKEditor
* Connexions Markup Language (CNXML)
* Cute Editor
* Docbook Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc)
* Docbook XSL Documentation (html.longdesc.link)
* Dreamweaver, Creative Suite
* Drupal 7 - Drupal 7 Release Date, January 5, 2011.
* easyALBUM
* elRTE
* Expression Studio
* Expression Web
* gp|Easy CMS
* HERA
* iGraph-Lite
* Juicy Studio's Image Analyser
* jQuery Accessible Longdesc Plugin
* LongDesc Page Generator
* ObjectDescription
* Oxygen XML Editor
* RadEditor for ASP.NET AJAX
* Save As DAISY/MSWord Add-In
* simplepie
* SiteVision.se (CMS)
* TinyMCE
* WAVE
* Weblight
* WordPress longdesc Plugin Automatic longdesc to be added to WordPress
* Visual Studio and ASP.NET
* XStandard
http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/research/ld-ua.html#atools

4. Additional rationale for the comment

The Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document should treat ARIA and longdesc equitably.

ARIA Techniques for WCAG 2.0 is cast in a positive light: "User Agent
support for WAI-ARIA varies, but overall support for WAI-ARIA is
improving."
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/#wai-aria_ua_support

In contrast H45: Using longdesc is cast in a negative light:
"Voiceover 4.0, NVDA 2012, Orca 2.32.0, and Zoomtext 10.0 (and their
earlier versions) do not support the longdesc attribute. Versions of
JAWS earlier than JAWS 4.01 and versions of WindowEyes earlier than
WindowEyes 4.5 do not support this attribute, but later versions do."
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html
There is no mention of longdesc improving i.e., NVDA, Chromevox,
Firefox, the many extensions.

Please correct this situation.; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes:; Resolution: Thanks for your comment and suggested text. This information is useful, and will be incorporated into the 'User Agent and Assistive Technology Support Notes' found on http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/H45.html#ua2.19.1 to read: [DONE] User Agent support for longdesc varies, but overall support is improving. Screen readers such as JAWS, NVDA, and Window-Eyes support longdesc, but Voiceover 4.0, Orca 2.32.0, and screen magnifier Zoomtext 10.0 do not yet support the longdesc attribute. Browsers including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Opera, and Chrome (planned) all support longdesc.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

Comment LC-2826: H50 not helpful to anyone: Commenter: david100@sympatico.ca (archived message); Context: H50: Using map to group links; Status:
assigned to Andrew Kirkpatrick; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Name: David MacDonald
Email: david100@sympatico.ca
Affiliation: WCAG TEAM
Document: TD
Item Number: H50
Part of Item: Applicability
Comment Type: general comment
Summary of Issue: Passing on comment from Steve F. "technique not helpful to anyone"
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
when looking over the technique i noted the reference to H50: Using map to group linkshttp://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H50.html after reading this technique I have a few suggestions:
1. Do not include it as a link.
2. lets get this technique removed ASAP as it is of no help to anyone.

see
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0061.html; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: [DONE] delete H50; Resolution: Thank you for your comment. The working group agrees and will remove this technique.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

Comment LC-2810: Poor example in SCR20: Commenter: harry.loots@ieee.org (archived message); Context: SCR20: Using both keyboard and other device-specific functions; Status:
assigned to Andrew Kirkpatrick; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Name: Harry Loots
Email: harry.loots@ieee.org
Affiliation: EPO
Document: TD
Item Number: SCR20
Part of Item: Examples
Comment Type: technical
Summary of Issue: Poor example
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
Using onkeypress with onclick is redundant. Additionaly onkeypress has to be specifically scripted to ensure that the Enter key has been pressed, otherwise any keypress will activate it.

Proposed Change:
Suggest:

1) that specific advice be provided that onclick should be used on its own (i.e., without keyboard equivalent) for the reasons stated above.

2) the onmousdown/onkeydown would be a better example, should a second example.; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes:; Resolution: Thank you for your comment. According to our testing, onkeypress is not redundant to onclick for non-native HTML controls, that is, for HTML elements that are not natively focusable. If a developer makes an image clickable with onclick that item does not respond to keyboard events unless onkeypress is provided. It is accurate that the author does need to control the script so that the appropriate keypress is accepted and other keypresses are ignored, but this is detailed in the example's description. We would welcome an onmousedown/onkeydown example if you or others wish to provide one to be added to this technique. The description of the technique does not currently draw the distinction between native and non-native HTML controls, which is confusing. We have updated the technique to make this clearer: [DONE] Change Note 1 to: "Although click is in principle a mouse event handler, most HTML and XHTML user agents also process this event when a native HTML control (e.g. a button or a link) is activated, regardless of whether it was activated with the mouse or the keyboard. In practice, therefore, it is not necessary to duplicate this event when adding handlers to natively focusable HTML elements. However, it is necessary when adding handlers to other events, such as in Example 2 below.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

editorial comments

Comment LC-2809: grammar suggestion: Commenter: harry.loots@ieee.org (archived message); Context: G8: Providing a movie with extended audio descriptions; Status:
assigned to Michael Cooper; Type:; Resolution status:
Response drafted Resolution implemented Reply sent to commenter; Response status:
No response from Commenter yet Commenter approved disposition Commenter objected to disposition
Commenter's response (URI):; Comment:
Name: Harry Loots
Email: harry.loots@ieee.org
Affiliation: EPO
Document: TD
Item Number: G8
Part of Item: Applicability
Comment Type: editorial
Summary of Issue: Suggestion for grammatical improvement
Comment (Including rationale for any proposed change):
Sentence described in proposed change contains grammatical error. See below:

Proposed Change:
Current text:
An alternate version of an online video of a family escaping from a burning building, there is a continuous dialogue between the husband and wife about where the children are.

Suggested change:
delete {An}
insert {In an}
New text:
[begin add]In an[end add] [begin delete]An[end delete] alternate version of an online video of a family escaping from a burning building, there is a continuous dialogue between the husband and wife about where the children are.

Alternative to suggested change is to substitute [,] with [:]; Related issues: (space separated ids); WG Notes: [DONE] In G8, replace An alternate version of an online video of a family escaping from a burning building, there is a continuous dialogue between the husband and wife about where the children are. with An alternate version of an online video of a family escaping from a burning building: there is a continuous dialogue between the husband and wife about where the children are.; Resolution: Thank you for your comment. Since this is representing an equivalent of the video your latter suggestion with the colon makes more sense and we will make the change.; (Please make sure the resolution is adapted for public consumption)

Add a comment.