EOWG -- 4 Nov 2005

<scribe> Scribe: Andrew

<scribe> ScribeNick: Andrew

Hi shawn - I think I've set everything up :)

<shawn> great, thanks! :-)

<shawn> it's kinda fun, isn't it? :-)

WRT to agenda item 1, and slides - will we use 'slidy' in future for these?

hi Justin

<Justin> greetings Andrew

justin, did you see my 'regrets' for last week? doesn't seem to be in the archives - maybe i just replied to shawn or judy, instead of to EO

hi judy

<Justin> hmmm

<pasquale> hi all, good morning/night

<Judy> hi all!

<Justin> i think i remember seeing them

i got home here at 5am after 22 hours travel, and then meeting wasn't until 10:30pm - just toooo late

<shawn> anyway, i passed on verbal regrets, so Andrew should be listed as regrets for last week. Andrew, do you want to e-mail Liam, whoh is the one cleaning up last week's minutes?

thanks shawn - will do

<shadi> yup

Outreach updates

Judy: outlines agenda

Andrew: Steve spoke during the accessibility webcast about the Toolbar on WUD
... Sofia spoke about accessible forms to a Technical Writers group in Melbourne

Shawn: WUD accessibility webcast was great - lots of good topics

Others: andrew/justin/pasquale also participated and thought it was good

Andrew: archives are available at http://www.inclusive.com/WUD/ - all topics link to abstract and archive (need IE to view most slides)

Judy: week of 14-19 Nov - activities in Tunisia for World Sumit on the Information Society (WSIS), with a day on Accessibility
... and how to integrate accessibility from design through to release

F2F Meeting in Australia

Shawn: walks through draft agenda - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/12/f2f-agenda.html#Agenda

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/

Judy: would anyone be contemplating phone participation?
... several east & west coast US folk

<Judy> link to time correspondences: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=12&day=12&year=2005&p1=152&p2=43&p3=234&p4=-1

Judy: asked for comments

All: happy with agenda

Shawn: will tidy up with Andrew as required
... William, Doyle, Harvey, Justin, George - who will participate in what sessions by phone?

Doyle: later half of day - possibly

William: possibly the full time

Harvey: possibly full time

George: possibly latter half of Mon & Tues

Justin: ditto

Judy: can Shawn & Andrew work this out and see what we might like to set up?
... can be tricky with remote AND local participation - so need tolerance from both groups

<Harvey> Harvey -- not Sunday AM

Judy: SKYPE can be tricky due to line quality

Shawn: new set-ups of VOIP in remote meeting connections with W3C bridge

Evaluation Tools for Web Accessibility - search and sort

Shadi: see http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/

<shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0082.html

Judy: lets take a brief look at the change log for the mini use cases - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/tools-changelog
... keep these in mind while we discuss the tools presentation

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/

Judy: lets look at the overview page - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/
... note that the 2 notes boxes will be removed from final release
... remember data is static at present - lets look at overview, then: complete list, sinple search, advanced search

Harvey: concrened that we are not explicit enough within the disclaimer regarding who has contributed the info

Shadi: we may prepolulate with info, but request developers/vendors to check and update

Judy: suggest changing "W3C cannot verify the accuracy of claims made by tool developers, vendors, or users" to "the info on this list come from tool developers or vendors unless otherwise noted, and in no case W3C does verify any of the claim in the list"

<Judy> ...does not verify the accuracy or updatedness of the information...

<shawn> something more like "and W3C does claim to verify the claims in the list""

<shawn> and in no case W3C does not verify any of the claim in the list"

<shadi> redialing...

<LiamM> Oops

<shawn> oops - ignore my comments above - they did not come out right :-(

<LiamM> We've all noticed and are waiting for you :)

<shadi> huh

judy: lets look at the "getting started" section - any comments?
... "finding eval tools" presents options - comments?

Shawn: lets just say "to list all tools" keeps it simpler

<shawn> "to show all tools in the list"

Judy: what about "to show all tools in the list"?

<shadi> yes

<shawn> perhaps "Simple Search - to search by language, Web format (for example, HTML or CSS), and operating system"

<scribe> ACTION: change to "Complete List - to show all tools in the list" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action01]

<shawn> perhaps "Simple Search - to search by language, Web format (for example, HTML or CSS), and operating system"

Liam: likes the idea of telling people what the criterea are

<shawn> perhaps "Simple Search - to find tools by language, Web format (for example, HTML or CSS), and operating system"

<shadi> +1

<scribe> ACTION: change to "Simple Search - to find tools by language, Web format (for example, HTML or CSS), and operating system" or similar (is the eg needed?) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action02]

<shadi> is criteria really sooooo bad?

<shawn> no

<shadi> Advanced Search - to find ...

<scribe> ACTION: subject to grammar, change to "Advanced Search - to find tools with many different criteria" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action03]

<shawn> LiamM suggests "to find tools using a detailed set of criteria"

Judy: was looking for a button, rather than a list of link choices

Shawn: agrees, but not a high priority

Andrew: likes it as a list

Liam: what about an image of the selection choices to assit understanding?

<shawn> ACTION: shadi - skim the IRC log for other ideas (e.g., Liam's suggested wording above) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action04]

Judy: disclaimer - any more? no.
... "About the Tools List" - will be developed further, inlcuding RSS feed, contribution instructions, repository format

<scribe> ACTION: change to "Link to document about how to suggest a tool and/or provide information about tools for the list." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action05]

Jusy: concerened about title cf "Selecting Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools" - seems like this doc is the starting point

s/jusy/judy/

<Judy> List of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools

<shawn> +1+++

<Justin> i like it

Judy: suggests "List of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools"

All: agree

<pasquale> i like it

<scribe> ACTION: change doc title to "List of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action06]

Ation: Shawn, nav may need to be tweaked to accommodate new title

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn, nav may need to be tweaked to accommodate new title [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action07]

Judy: lets look at "complete list" - http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/eval/tools/complete

Andrew: what about short/long views?

Shadi: listed for later emhancement

Liam: can we move the "please read" sentence to after the "this page shows" para

Shadi: agrees

William: what about making it just look like a list, with no lhs nav?

Liam: and others (shawn/andrew) like the nav, needed for users landing sideways or being deep linked

Judy: can we simplify the layout/presentation at all?

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn to look at presentation options, eg shading each item, (simplifying LHS), etc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action08]

<shawn> ACTION: Shawn look at left nav eval - put mid docs with lines instead of bullets? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action09]

Liam: would like to have the option of another search (not just from the LHS) when you get to the results page

<pasquale> in safari, in nav, arrows are near "Advanced Search"

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn & Shadi to consider inlcuding the option of another search (not just from the LHS) when you get to the results page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action10]

Justin: what is a "web format"?

Judy: what about being a bit more wordy, eg "my operating system is: A B C" etc

<scribe> ACTION: Shawn & Shadi to attempt reformating the selections along Judy's suggestion - making the choices more contextualised [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action11]

Andrew: what about radio buttons? (maybe three columns?)

Judy: to Shadi - how closely do these options match the "selecting tools" doc?

<Judy> "for more information about these choices please see selecting evaluation tools"

Shadi: should be a close match (not a full 1 to 1) - maybe we link most of the terms bacj to that doc

<scribe> ACTION: link from headings (as appropriate) to the "selecting tools" doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-eo-minutes.html#action12]

Judy: Shadi and ERT will be in data collection mode for the next month or two - ime to come back to this later

meeting schedule

Judy: lots of disruption over the next few months - see http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/

<pasquale> i can't attend 11

<Justin> no - will be in finals

Judy: Who can attend 11 Nov? Liam, Doyle, George, Shadi only

<shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0089.html

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/before/

Before/After Demo

Shadi: see http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/before/
... just 4 pages, trying to demonstrate good and bad stuff with the same look and feel
... all 4 bad pages are available, eg form
... repaired pages not completed, and many other things still to do
... what about the notice in the page that it is a "bad" page? Screen reader users get it first

Andrew: all users need it first - a bar across the top maybe

Others: agree - what about like a notice from WAI style?

Next meeting: 18 November 2005

<pasquale> hi all

Attendees: Liam_McGee, Andrew, Shawn, Judy, Shadi, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Justin, Bingham, +44.27.aaaa, Tangay, George_Heake, pasquale, Helle

Shawn (or Shadi or Judy), please set the access (ACLs) to public (world) for the draft minutes

<shawn> will do in a bit

<Judy> thanks andrew

<shawn> andrew, justin, liam, or shadi

<shawn> the "present" list didn't work

<shawn> and i've lost it now

<shawn> would you be willing to scroll up, copy the list, and e-mail it to Andrews

I got it at the start I thought

<shawn> when you put "Present: +Helle " it erased all

<shawn> need to do "Present+ Helle" (wuthout colon)

- DRAFT -

EOWG

4 Nov 2005

Attendees

Contents

Outreach updates

F2F Meeting in Australia

Evaluation Tools for Web Accessibility - search and sort

meeting schedule

Before/After Demo

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output