See
also: IRC log
Present
Doyle_Saylor, Jack, Shawn, Shadi,
Justin_Thorp, Andrew, Ron_Armstrong, Harvey, Judy, Loughborough, Helle_Bjarno
Regrets
Emma, Pasquale, Barry, Wayne, Chuck,
Roberto
Chair
Judy
Scribe
Jack
Review of agenda by Judy
Outreach updates
Justin sent comments to the email list
Judy was in DC to participate as an observor to a conference about disability
dealing with a broad range of standards
Andrew was in Perth for a web accessibility workshop with part of the web
accessibility university workshop
Both Ron and Wayne are involved in other university outreach as well
<Andrew> Seminar in Perth WA, was part
of the WANAU forums series - www.wanau.org/events/
<Andrew> Workshop in Perth was part of
our regular workshop series - www.nils.org.au/ais/web/workshops/
How aging and disability should be addressed in WAI material
Judy sets up the background to the issue
<Harvey> On my website, as part of
"Precepts on Aging and Growing Old Gracefully",
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask who has
written guidelines for older people & the Web
How do the existing materials talk about aging and disabilities? How well
do the exisitng materials deal with aging? Do the materials need to be revised?
Are new materials needed?
<Harvey> appendix 3 has websites on
aging. http://www.hbingham.com/onaging.htm#appendix3
<Andrew> Australian Council on the
Ageing (COTA) has a bibliography on ICT & Ageing @ http://www.cota.org.au/bibliogICT.htm
<Harvey> Older Wiser Wired: http://www.aarp.org/olderwiserwired/
Judy - How much bridging would be needed to existing resources scuh as
though mention by Harvey and Andrew?
Review of history with various disabilities such deafness, etc.
William: those that
age don't want to consider themselves as joining the disability community
<Harvey> I addressed many
inaccessibilities and ways to overcome them on: http://www.hbingham.com/accessibility/inaccessibilities.htm
<Andrew> Another ref: Design Guidelines
for Users of All Ages - http://www.agelight.com/Resources/webdesign.htm
Helle - primary contact is with parents. They are actively involved in
local library.
<Andrew> and from MS: The Aging of the
US Population and Its Impact on Computer Use - http://www.microsoft.com/enable/research/agingpop.aspx
Helle - the libraries have some of the most accesibility web sites
Doyle - Great interest. Pools that are available for people who are older
don't match needs very well.
<Helle> Reference from the Danish
knowledge center on gerontology:Young technology in old hands : an international
view on senior citizen's utilization of ICT. Birgit Jaeger (ed.)
Here is a link to a Danish
research project at
Judy - Are we reaching people? Are there some that don't see how our week
is relevent?
<Zakim> Andrew, you wanted to talk about
vision australia and NILS client base and services
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say
"print-disability" takes it off the person, and onto the print ! :-)
Andrew - The elder's may not see themselves as having a print disability
but are taking advantage of the work being done
<Helle> ISBN: 87-574-1127-1
<Helle> the Danish book is in English
and I just sent the ISBN for those interested
Shawn - the use of the phrase 'print disability' puts the onus of the
problem on the page rather than the person
<shawn> Jack: people don't see the link
between "people with disabilities" with them and their issues from
aging
<shawn> ... partly it's a problem with
language... if able to bridge that gap, we become more relevant and useful.
esp. in the commercial. everyone has various limitations & we want to make
accessible for everyone
Justiin: Interaction
with aging community is limited. But once the connection was made between
disabilities and aging are the same many becoame very focal advocates.
Helle: has
additional resources that she will send to the list.
Judy: How to
better help the public and the aging community to better understand how the
technical work can be of help to them?
<shawn> William: enabling connection
Doyle: Older
people may be more interested in contact with family. Combine movtivations of
aging community with communicating family and friends. Here is how to do what
you want
Enabling connections
Talking books
Harvey: Pointing to
assistive technologies such as JAWS, etc.
Justin: Do we
already have resource lists that help?
Doyle: Be a
resource to families who want to help individual family members
Judy: We also
need to work on the organizations that advocate and work with Elders. Probably
need a dual focus.
Doyle: For example
if AARP (American Association if Retired Persons) would be a great force.
AndrewL People who are aging don't see themselves as having a disability.
<Andrew> Self advocacy - see, e.g. http://www.nils.org.au/ais/print/print_alt/printalt.asp
<shawn> Andrew: get consumers on board
(rather than just us, get them to request...
Andrew: Talking to
various groups dealing with aging such as the council on the aging, AARP would
help bring more of consumer pressure on making web site accessbile.
Judy: Shoe
leather approach with materials as they are?
<shawn> (shoe leather reference --
walking around, going door-to-door, "pounding the pavement")
Andrew: Not sure if
the materials need to be changed or how.
<judy> (...use of ICT linked to
development of an identity as an active individual rather than
(impairment-related)...)
<Harvey> Aging is certainly better than
the alternative!
William: We should
look at the materials and should make sure that agining is included.
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say approach:
1. make sure it is clearly and appropriately included in our documents
(Introduction to Accessibility, others???), 2. outreach campaign to make
Shawn: ... Make
sure that aging is clearly and appropriately included in documents.
<Andrew> So - always talk about helping
"people with disabilities, impairments and the ageing"?
Shawn: Write
articles for various aging magazines, publications. Include on web page as part
of quick facts.
Materials
Helle: Being old
and being disability is not same. We want to make sure that there is a
distinction.
<shawn> from How People with
Disabilities Use the Web :The term "disability" is used very
generally in this document. Some people with conditions described below would
not consider themselves to have disabilities. They may, however, have
limitations of sensory, physical or cognitive functioning which can affect
access to the Web. These may include injury-related and aging-related
conditions, and can be temporary or chronic.
<shawn> The number and severity of
limitations tend to increase as people age, and may include changes in vision,
hearing, memory, or motor function. Aging-related conditions can be
accommodated on the Web by the same accessibility solutions used to accommodate
people with disabilities.
Judy: Point one is
to always say something about it. Point two is to make sure that aging and
disability are distinct.
... Reads part of document of 'How People with Disabilities Use the Web'
Reaction from several people positive about reaction.
Andrew: Maybe we
need to have a parallel document that talks about how People who are aging use
the web.
<Andrew> Here is a great ref: Ageing on
the Web - http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw03/papers/newton/paper.html
Shawn: I think we
need a piece that is small and dedicated to ageing.
<Harvey> We shouldn't change titles, as
they are widely referenced.
William: Maybe it
could be included in changing part of the titles.
Judy: Please
review existing materials and then come back to discuss the topic. Are there
any volunters to review materials? William will take on assignment.
<LiamM> Sorry -- already have my time
filled with BAD-TF...
Judy: Justin and
Shawn will be of technical assistances.
<Andrew> very quickly: 6,890 documents
have disability or disabilities; only 122 have ageing
Helle will work with William.
Introduction to Web Accessibility document
Shawn: Comments
incorporated. No additional comments reviewed.
Judy: Should we
include additional things about aging?
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility.php
<Andrew> can we simple change the intro
sentence to "Web accessibility means that people with disabilities or
impairments and those who are aging can use the Web"
<LiamM> What about those of us with slow
web connections?
<LiamM> Maybe emphasise more strongly
the idea of 'Reach' in general, not just users with disabilities?
Judy: ... Change
2nd sentence in 1st paragraph to include aging.
<LiamM> Suggestion: "Web
accessibility means that everybody can use the Web. More specifically, Web
accessibility means that people with access requirements due to disability,
technology or aging can perceive, understand, navigate, and interact with the
Web, and that they can contribute to the Web." ?
<shawn>
ACTION: shawn look at
adding aging above the fold in Introduction to Web Accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/12-eo-minutes.html#action01]
Judy: With the
exception of changes to aging, the document should be issued as 2.0?
No objections to moving it from draft status to production.
Judy: Shawn will
have her discretion in incorporating aging comments and moving document
forward.
Business Case For Business Case
<LiamM> 4. Query
<LiamM> * priority: 2
<LiamM> * location: Technical Factors, (http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/bcase/tech.html)
<LiamM> * current wording:
<LiamM> Some developers and
organizations pride themselves on producing high quality Web sites that meet
technical standards. Web accessibility guidelines such as the Web Content
Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 1.0 from the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C)
Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) are widely-recognized international
standards. Several resources addressing the the business case for Web standards
in general are available on the Web and in print.
<LiamM> * query:
<LiamM> Can we provide examples? For
example,
<LiamM> http://www.maccaws.org/kit/way-forward/
or even just http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22business+case+for+web+standards%22
<LiamM> * rationale
<LiamM> Not currently obvious where to
get these.
<shawn> re: e-mail EOWG: 1 change for
review - [for EOWG teleconference] Re: Business Case proofing notes - more
notes
<shawn> objections to that change?
<shawn> no objections
Liam: In
technical factors document. Should include pointers to where to start looking.
Shawn: Would we
want to have a pointer or do we want to give them instructions about how we do
that?
Andrew: As long as
we put in an appropriate disclaimer, we should be able to put this in. However,
the document should be released now. Add this to a wish list.
Agreement that is the way to proceed.
<shawn> please complete survey at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/bcase1/
Judy:
Participants in good standing should vote on document to proceed.
... Asks Shawn to send out reminder.
Face 2 Face Meeting
Shawn: There is
not sufficient support for Geermany right now. Australia is still a
possibility.
<LiamM> Currently, can only find
reference to 'age' or 'aging' in the Financial Factors part of the BC.
<shawn> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005JulSep/0062.html
<shawn> About RSS
<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/highlights/about-rss.html
<LiamM> Bye
<shawn> rssagent, draft minutes
[NEW] ACTION: shawn look at adding aging
above the fold in Introduction to Web Accessibility [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/12-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]