W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Services Resource Access Working Group Teleconference

03 Feb 2009

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Ashok Malhotra, Oracle Corp.
Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft Corp.
Bob Freund, Hitachi, Ltd.
Doug Davis, IBM
Geoff Bullen, Microsoft Corp.
Gilbert Pilz, Oracle Corp.
Katy Warr, IBM
Li Li, Avaya Communications
Mark Little, Red Hat
Sumeet Vij, Software AG
Vikas Varma, Software AG
Wu Chou, Avaya Communications
Yves Lafon, W3C/ERCIM
Absent
Bob Natale, MITRE Corp.
Fred Maciel, Hitachi, Ltd.
Jeff Mischkinsky, Oracle Corp.
Prasad Yendluri, Software AG
Ranga Reddy Makireddy, CA
Sreedhara Narayanaswamy, CA
Regrets
Bob Natale, MITRE Corp.
Fred Maciel, Hitachi, Ltd.
Prasad Yendluri, Software AG
Chair
Bob Freund, Hitachi, Ltd.
Scribe
Ashok Malhotra

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2009

<Bob> meeting: WS-RA WG Teleconference

<Bob> scribenick: Ashok

<Bob> scribe: Ashok Malhotra

Opening

<Bob> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Feb/0009.html

Agenda accepted

<Yves> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Feb/0009.html

Approval of minutes from Jan 27

Issue 6427 was noted as approved with amendements. However, there were no amendments in the minutes.

Bob: Please send mail with amendments to the issue
... Did not see amendments in bugzilla
... this not asking for approval of minutes as they are incomplete

Also, discussion was in progress on issue 6429 but not concluded

scribe: Please send mail on 6429 is there is more than there is in the minutes

Bob: I will put 6472 on today's agenda

New issues

New Issue-6498 Eventing: Define fault action URI http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6498

Geoff introduces issue

Issue accepted w/o objection. Assigned to Geoff

New Issue-6499 Enum: Define fault action URI and cleanup http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6499

Geoff: Same thing except for enum

Issue accepted w/o objection. Assigned to Geoff

New Issue-6500 MEX: Wrappers around GetMetadata http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6500

Dependent on 6398

Issue accepted w/o objection. Assigned to Geoff

New Issue-6519 Resource Access: Namespace format for RA specs http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6519

Geoff: Need namespace policy and namespace change policy

Issue accepted w/o objection. Assigned to Geoff

<marklittle> +1

Bob: This is important to us so I propose to move it up to the top of today's agenda
... No objections to moving it up. We will move to first item on issue list discussion today

f2f details

Yves: Not yet created questionnaire. Will do so asap
... will also update admin page with details

<Bob> ACTION: Yves to update admin page with f2f logistics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Update admin page with f2f logistics [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-02-10].

<Bob> ACTION: Yves to open a poll to determine attendance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Open a poll to determine attendance [on Yves Lafon - due 2009-02-10].

Reports from Editors

Doug: All 5 specs converted

They have been out since Friday

Geoff: We have not reviewed yet

<dug> ashok - mex date is now fixed

Bob: Links shd go on the homepage ... need to decide the namespace issue first

<Yves> I will make a snapshot anyway, once it's considered stable (for publication)

Asir: Could we get a tagged version

Bob: After namespace change could we approve in 10 business days

<asir> ... Good job editors!

Doug: Do we need acknowledgements?

<dug> no preference

<Yves> how about adding the submissions as informative references? (to link to ack indirectly)

<asir> are there any pub rulese regarding acknowledgements?

Ashok: Argues remove names in the Acknowledgements section

<Yves> asir; no

<asir> k

Agreed

Yves: Do we need to link from the WD to the Member Submission?

No objections

<asir> no ... informative references

Editors to add reference to Member Submissions

Issue-6519 Namespace issue

Geoff: What shd namespace URI be?

<asir> i agree with Bob that Director's approval is not required

<Yves> everything in /ns/ would require one, this is not the case here

<Geoff> Proposal:

<Geoff> We propose we follow the W3C recommendation for namespace URIs and use the

<Geoff> following URIs for our first working drafts.

<Geoff> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-t

<Geoff> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-mex

<Geoff> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-en

<Geoff> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-ev

<Geoff> http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-rt

<Geoff> This is based on our intension to deliver them in February.

http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-ra/ws-t

<dug> to be clear this is for the 'latest version', right?

<Bob> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/09/02/xxx

Yes, latest version

<asir> why do we need so many path segments, curious?

Asir: Confusing dev area with pub area

<asir> me too

<marklittle> me too

Bob: Do we agree to Geoff original proposal?
... This will be ns uri for first WD

Li: I have concern about short string ... very close to one another ... I would like more discrimination

<Katy> looks good to me

Doug: This is only for first WD

Wu: Can we use 3 letters uniformly

Bob: Please type in short strings you suggest

<dug> tra/met/enu/eve/res

<Wu> ws-tra

<Wu> ws-evt

<Geoff> ws-evt?

<Geoff> ws-rst

Proposal for name space strings:

<Bob> ~/ws-tra

<Bob> ~/ws-mex

<Bob> ~/ws-enu

<Bob> ~/ws-evt

<Bob> ~/es-rst

Bob: Any objections to the above?
... Now we go to ns policy

No objection to Bob's proposal

<dug> yves: when does the "/TR/" part of the URL come into play?

<Yves> during official publication

Bob: We change ns every time we publish until CR and then after that only if there was a backwards breaking change

<dug> odd that I don't see a ns policy section in wsa-core

Bob: Geoff counterproposed ...

Discussion of what causes ns to change

<Bob> The working group intends to update the value of the Web Services XXXX namespace URI each time a new version of this document is published until such time that the document reaches Candidate Recommendation status. Once it has reached Candidate Recommendation status, the working group will not change the namespace arbitrarily with each subsequent revision of the corresponding XML Schema...

<Bob> ...documents but rather change only when a subsequent revision results in non-backwardly compatible changes from a previously published revision. Under this policy, the following are examples of backwards compatible changes that would not result in assignment of a new XML namespace URI: * Addition of new global element, attribute, complexType and simpleType definitions. * Addition of...

<Bob> ...new elements or attributes in locations covered by a previously specified wildcard. * Modifications to the pattern facet of a type definition for which the value-space of the previous definition remains valid or for which the value-space of the vast majority of instances would remain valid. * Modifications to the cardinality of elements (i.e. modifications to minOccurs or maxOccurs...

<Bob> ...attribute value of an element declaration) for which the value-space of possible instance documents conformant to the previous revision of the schema would still be valid with regards to the revised cardinality rule.

<asir> if you are fighting IRC to read the text please see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Feb/0013.html

<asir> this one is slightly more objective ...

<Geoff> +q

Ashok: Recommends shorter version with ptr to TAG finding

<Bob> The working group intends to update the value of the Web Services XXXX namespace URI each time a new version of this document is published until such time that the document reaches Candidate Recommendation status. Once it has reached Candidate Recommendation status, the working group intends to maintain the value of the Web Services XXXX namespace URI that was assigned in the Candidate...

Katy agrees

<Bob> ...Recommendation unless significant changes are made that impact the implementation of the specification.

<asir> what pointer are we talking about?

Geoff: Can we work in backwards incompatibility?

<dug> does adding a new optional thing to the schema require a new ns? that's backward compat but it is a significant change.

<asir> that is a very subjective statement

<asir> this means we should have an objective statement

<Bob> The working group intends to update the value of the Web Services XXXX namespace URI each time a new version of this document is published until such time that the document reaches Candidate Recommendation status. Once it has reached Candidate Recommendation status, the working group intends to maintain the value of the Web Services XXXX namespace URI that was assigned in the Candidate...

<Bob> ...Recommendation unless significant changes are made that impact the implementation or break post-CR implementationc of the specification. Reference http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html

<Bob> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri

<asir> I do not see any substantive content in the TAG ruling .. what are we trying to achieve?

<marklittle> fine with me

Bob: Any objection to above after fixing Reference editorially

<Katy> fine with me too

<Wu> impact implementation is fine to me

Geoff: We are OK

No objections

Resolution: Resolve issue-6519 with the above text for namespace strings and namespace policy

Bob: I will put into bugzilla
... with corrected wording

Issues with Proposals

Issue-6459 Eventing: Typo in message in Table 12 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6459

Bob: Any objection to accepting proposal in bugzilla?

Resolution: Issue-6459 resolved with proposal in bugzilla without objection

Issue-6442 WS-MEX's WSDL includes non-existent wsa04:Action and wsa10:Action elements http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6442

<dug> redline: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jan/att-0058/00-part

Bob: Any objection to accepting proposal by Gil?

No objection

resolution: Issue-6442 is resolved with proposal in Bugzilla Comment #1

<asir> what is the issue #

Issue-6426 Resource Access: Fix Delivery Definition http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6426

Geoff: Some wording changes needed in spec
... there is action item to provide wording

<dug> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/tracker/actions/2

<Yves> ACTION-2?

<trackbot> ACTION-2 -- Li Li to li to add some wording to clarify the use of NotifyTo (re: issue 6426) -- due 2009-02-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/tracker/actions/2

Bob: Li what is status of action? It is action 2 from last week
... Let's wait on this until the ai is complete

<dug> Latest: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-resource-access/2009Jan/0043.html

Li: I have not posted changes yet.

Issue-6398 WS-Transfer violates WS-I BP w.r.t. the use of types http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6398

Geoff: We have 2 concerns. 1) how transfer shd align with http
... not clear what that means

We shd engage TAG

scribe: and ask them to clarify

<marklittle> +1 to Dug

<asir> Do we have an official TAG communique or list of issues re alignment?

<asir> Yves?

<Yves> http://www.w3.org/2007/01/wos-papers/tag this one?

<Yves> http://www.w3.org/2007/01/wos-papers/tag#WSTransfer might be the proper link

<scribe> ACTION: Ashok to ask TAG for more specific comments on Resource Access [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action03]

AOB?

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ashok to ask TAG for more specific comments on Resource Access [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to open a poll to determine attendance [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to update admin page with f2f logistics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/03-ws-ra-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2009/02/06 14:16:18 $