WSA Teleconference
24 Apr 2003

Igor Sedukhin is the scribe

Minutes were approved.

ACTION: chairs rise an issue to CG to track the F2F details

Both still PENDING

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DONE

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NEW ACTION: All check the issues that they agreed to close
NEW ACTION: to the editors to crossrefernce that (remindier of the status)

Other updates:
Abbie has sent security section. Give another week to review.
ACTION: All to review security section text
mmahan sent some stuff privately to eric. will resend to the group, public list.
the text was related to privacy P3P
heather: MTF has agreed to post 3.2 as a note, no further work @ W3C
heather: can't commit to do the integration of the text in time
frank: what is the real deadline for publishing
hugo: 14th of may
<hugo> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2003AprJun/0015.html
<hugo> 17 May
frank: agrees to propose integration of MTF stuff
<hugo> which means that we have 1 extra week
<scribe> ACTION: Frank to work with Heather on integration

heather: hard to understand the doc
...discussion arround integration of David's diagrams...
heather: is there a better way to organize core concepts sesction, not just alphabetical list?
heather: where is the UML diagram?
martin: will look into redrawing it as UML
martin: timeframe?
<hugo> New Deadline for Publication requests: 15 May 2003
<hugo> this time, it's the real date
mchampion&hugo: can't be tweaking the UML @ the F2F
heather: formatting has to be improved
mchampion: propose something to improve it
<Roger> The short line format looks almost like some sort of poetry.
<Roger> Architectural Haiku?
<Heather> Heather has to leave early, talk to you next week
mchampion: the France F2F will have more formal votes in good standing to W3C guidelines
<hugo> http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Process-20010719/process.html#good-standing
hugo&chairs will check what those gudelines are
mchampon: member participation will be looked at in compliance with those rules
mchampion: revise the requirements doc and make sure all reqs have owners
<hugo> [[
<hugo> January 2004
<hugo>     Working Group ends.
<hugo> ]]
roger: can't agree for this working grp to go forever
mchampion: agrees
mchampion: eliminate the reqs we can't address in time
doug: limit the number of reqs by the depth of description of the WSA and what it covers
mchampion: yes, doug is just being precise
roger: limiting scope by restricting what WSs are is wrong
frank: focus on things that must be there for sure and work on the text
daveH: solidify what has consensus, and prioritize things that don't have
  consensus and address that later
dougb: scribe, not sure how to capture this in minutes but my point was more that we have
  3 axes along which scope reduction is possible: requirements, what we describe (i.e. what
  is a web service) and depth of description (eg. focusing on "infrastructure)
mchampion: if you don't have time to spend with the editors, just take the topic
  of interest and own it
frank: read the output of the group.
daveH: make points related to the document
frank: order of the presentation: put the stakeholders view upfront?
frank: ... describes the current doc ...
mchampion: text on SOA + DaveO's text still needs to be worked in
frank: 1.7 WS technologies: belongs to stakeholder's view section. important for
  consolodated view on the various piece technologies
mchampion: what is being asked?
frank: someone take that section and own it...
mchampion: send an e-mail to ask for owner
frank: it is scattered, this section needs to be gathered and put together
  consistently
mchampion: editors have to send an e-mail outlining where they need help
ACTION: Frank to send e-mail inviting for help on tech.consolidated view section
  and may start writing that section

<mchampion> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2003Apr/0254.html
mchampion: can we put it in the doc
mario: can live with it. wants a straw poll
<mario> Suggestion to adopt the current version of Eric's propsed diagram as is (please
  type "y" to vote for adoption)
<Roger> y
<mchampion> y
<Mark_J> y
<mario> The diagram ist listed at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-arch/2003Apr/0254.html
<hugo> y
<mario> y
<ugo> y
<DaveO> n
<frankmccabe> y
<arkin> y
...discussion of what this diagram is for and if it is applicable and detailed properly...
<mmahan> y-
daveO: orthogonal concepts do not make sense on the stack diagram
daveO: 3 points: messages, descriptions, discovery and security flow though
  (implied?). wants more accurate representation of that
diagram 10 by daveO
arrows? what for?
daveO: relationships are arrows
roger: does not see stack diagrams making anything clearar in the WSA.
roger: daveB's diagrams, on the other hand made a lot of discussions clearer
mchampion: may be we're closer to consensus than we think we are
frank/roger: stack just puts the names of related classifications in one place
mark: agrees that it is more marketecture than and architecture
roger: suggests an outline instead of stack
mark: the point of the diagram is non-linear relationships
<TomCarroll> Then how about three related diagrams
<scribe> ...this grp needs to create the common marketecture stack diagram, instead of
  enumerating all stacks that all the members could produce for that
ACTION: mchampion to produce text that renders into --A-- stack diagram

mchampion: summarize URI discussion
daveO: URI of what exactly? no consensus arround that. WS enpoint has URI, service
  element in WSDl may have a URI in 1.2. An agent implementing WS may be identified. What
  has to be indentified to correspond to WS?
daveO: on the Web URI identifies a resource. What that resource is for a WS?
mchampion: all of those things are Web resources and have URIs
martin: not all of those are web resources
daveO: WSDL says a WS is a collection of endpoints. The thing behind the endpoints
  is a WS implicitly.
daveO: reiterates his discussion with WSDL group about naming of those things
daveO: all we can do it interact with an endpoint and therefore --IT-- it a WS
martin: WSDL confuses the whole issue
frank: there is something that is a WS and it has a name. name should be the
  identifier.
daveO: there is no place in WSDl for the URI for the WS
matin: this is fundametal for WSA
ACTION: group: review, develop opionon and sync up with WSD