Chatlog 2010-09-03 Project 3

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<sandro> Present: Brand_Niemann, Cory_Casanave, Gannon_Dick, Michael_Hausenblas, Sandro_Hawke, Ted_Thibodeau
11:56:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
11:56:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-irc
11:56:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:56:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
11:56:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
11:56:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
11:56:18 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
11:56:18 <trackbot> Date: 03 September 2010
11:56:38 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2010Sep/0003.html
11:56:42 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
#11:56:49 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas
11:57:06 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:57:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas
11:57:13 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, makes logs public
11:57:13 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makes logs public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
11:57:25 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, makes records public
11:57:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makes records public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
11:57:28 <gdick> gdick has joined #egov
11:57:31 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make records public
11:58:16 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM has now started
11:58:23 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
11:58:27 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
11:58:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas
11:58:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr-bbl, Ted, edsu, sandro, trackbot
11:58:33 <cory> cory has joined #egov
11:58:50 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
11:59:34 <Zakim> +Cory
12:02:06 <Zakim> + +1.703.268.aaaa
12:02:10 <Zakim> + +1.617.838.aabb
12:02:30 <Ted> Zakim, aabb is me
12:02:30 <Zakim> +Ted; got it
12:02:53 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:02:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, +1.703.268.aaaa, Ted
12:02:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr-bbl, Ted, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:03:54 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is Brand
12:03:54 <Zakim> +Brand; got it
12:03:57 <Zakim> + +1.508.333.aacc
12:04:19 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is gdick 
12:04:20 <Zakim> +gdick; got it
12:04:25 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:04:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick
12:04:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr-bbl, Ted, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:04:38 <mhausenblas> sandro, will you join in?
12:05:37 <sandro> d'oh, lost track of time.
12:05:43 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
12:05:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick
12:05:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr-bbl, Ted, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:06:00 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?
12:06:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), sandro
12:06:06 <mhausenblas> open actions are at http://www.w3.org/egov/IG/track/actions/open
12:06:20 <Zakim> +Sandro
12:06:37 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:06:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:06:48 <mhausenblas> Topic: Roadmap: GLD Challenge
<> summary: We will try to assemble a challenge or contest which motivates and highlights the development of linked data applications
12:08:00 <sandro> scribe: sandro
#12:08:00 <mhausenblas> scribenick: sandro 
12:08:47 <sandro> mhausenblas: The idea is to get other people to do demos, for example a Challenge, from W3C, perhaps supported by DERI
12:09:08 <sandro> ... maybe some sort of prize, which helps get public attention
12:09:24 <sandro> ... should one do this?   how restricted might it be?
12:09:38 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
12:09:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick, Sandro
12:09:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr-bbl, Ted, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:10:05 <sandro> cory: There's been a couple other challenges.   "Triplify"
12:10:21 <sandro> mhausenblas: I participated, recently one something (with a colleague)
12:10:40 <sandro> cory: another one...   trying to remember...  promoted through the white house.
12:11:10 <sandro> cory: be aware there are other things with similar names, similar initiatives.
12:11:27 <sandro> mhausenblas: most I know of are about publishing data, or doing something (like reasoning) with the data
12:11:33 <cory> http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/assets/memoranda_2010/m10-11.pdf
12:11:58 <sandro> mhausenblas: I'm not aware of ones around *applications*..   There aren't a lot of apps which make use of open gov't information
12:12:15 <sandro> ... something to make clear the benefits of Open Data, preferably Linked Open Data
12:13:31 <sandro> mhausenblas: shall I draft something?
12:13:49 <sandro> sandro: How about drafting a possible announcement/rules
#12:14:05 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Michael to draft a strawman call incl. rules, go#als, etc
#12:14:05 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Michael
12:14:05 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. maisenbe, mhausenb)
12:14:08 <sandro> cory: It'll be abstract if you don't point at something specifically?
12:14:18 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to draft a strawman call incl. rules, goals, etc
12:14:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Draft a strawman call incl. rules, goals, etc [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2010-09-10].
12:14:30 <sandro> cory: Point at specific data sets?
12:15:05 <sandro> mhausenblas: I'd focus on gov't data, but it should be linked.
12:15:52 <sandro> cory: I would suggest we not limit it, but express it such that a linked data solution would show its stuff, so it helps demonstrate the value
12:16:06 <sandro> sandro: that's very brave
12:16:11 <sandro>  :-)
12:17:25 <sandro> sandro: maybe require data to at least be converted, in an open way, to Linked Data
12:17:40 <sandro> cory: Could at least label it G L D challenge
12:17:55 <sandro> mhausenblas: Could have it open, but have two tracks
12:18:06 <sandro> mhausenblas: Or use timbl's five-star plan
12:18:20 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
12:18:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick (muted), Sandro
12:18:56 <sandro> mhausenblas: Whatever helps attract as many people as possible
12:19:20 <sandro> cory: I would not be surprised if some govt agencies were interested
12:20:14 <sandro> cory: middle ground -- data sets leveraging each other, without pushing the technology too hard
12:20:41 <sandro> mhausenblas: rules: it has to be publicly available, on the web, without needing to install something.
12:21:02 <sandro> mhausenblas: I think of oData, where you are often restricted to certain software.
12:21:10 <sandro> mhausenblas: it should work in any browser.
12:21:50 <sandro> mhausenblas: then a question of doing the assessment -- judges, and maybe public voting.
12:22:06 <sandro> sandro: or two prizes -- "people's choice" and judges prize.
12:22:53 <sandro> mhausenblas: DERI can sponsor this, but sometimes it's a bit plain to have the money ....   what other motivations would there be,    ... show your work.
12:23:02 <sandro> mhausenblas: bragging rights are quite valuable
12:23:15 <sandro> mhausenblas: also for gov't agencies
12:24:02 <sandro> mhausenblas: make sure it has strong backing and exposure, eg White house
12:24:45 <sandro> sandro: selection of judges shows this
12:24:58 <sandro> cory: purchasing power, technical expertise
12:25:23 <sandro> mhausenblas: Couple this with some event, eg Gov2.0
12:25:35 <sandro> mhausenblas: Is there something international?
12:26:09 <sandro> cory: United Nations Open Data event?
12:26:41 <sandro> sandro: Yeah, offhand O'Reilly Gov 2.0 might be best, but it's very American
12:27:16 <sandro> cory: Be sure there is a clear mark they can put on their marketing materials, a cool looking seal.
12:27:54 <sandro> mhausenblas: Okay, I can certainly put something on the wiki page to start this
12:28:21 <sandro> mhausenblas: It sounds like we want to proceed with this
12:28:43 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
12:28:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick (muted), Sandro
12:29:06 <cory> Also, an international company sponsor like google may help
12:29:11 <sandro> sandro: How about you other folks, who have been quiet?
12:29:45 <mhausenblas> http://www.google.com/publicdata/directory
12:29:57 <sandro> mhausenblas: I might have a contact with Google that could be helpful in involving them.
12:30:35 <sandro> brand: I've been working at this from the angle of data science, and data-as-product, within my agency.
12:31:14 <sandro> ... At the SemWeb meetup in NYC, with Deb McGuinness and Peter Fox, Govt Open Scientific Data, ... I've been talking to Peter, and Jim Hendler.   
12:31:31 <sandro> ... WebScience is good, but I thing DataScience is bigger and more important
12:32:02 <sandro> ... Tim O'Reilly commissioned an article on DataScience.   I linked to it.     Data as a product, is the real thing.   Of which LOD is a subset.
12:32:17 <sandro> ... I'm getting that to resonate
12:32:49 <sandro> mhausenblas: I wouldn't exclude that.      I want to see how people use the data
12:33:10 <sandro> mhausenblas: not just technical, but social
12:33:19 <sandro> mhausenblas: focus on what we can achieve
12:33:50 <sandro> brand: I couldn't agree more.   I've been using SpotFire with s-plus.
12:34:21 <sandro> brand: Kingsley has been interested, and started a dialog with TIBCO about making SpotFire handle linked data.
12:34:42 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:34:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick, Sandro
12:34:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:34:58 <sandro> ... I needed a tool that sits on a triplestore to look at the data
12:35:03 <sandro> ... OpenLink?
12:35:13 <sandro> mhausenblas: Ted?    Are you still here?
12:36:00 <sandro> Ted: I'm not familiar with that particular effort, but certainly OpenLink is very interested in consumer and consumable interfaces to this stuff.    Our strength is in the back end, but we're still itnerested.
12:36:19 <sandro> ted: on the challenge: let's talk about the things that can't easily be answered without linked data
12:37:11 <sandro> ted: eg recent economic termoil ... the bad loans were untraceable through securitizations.   Similar questions to be asked...   Where else has this candidate been active, what are their connections?   A lot of this is public record.
12:37:33 <sandro> ... a lot of this is out there, but hard to track back.
12:38:01 <sandro> ... lots of interesting connections between candidates
12:38:18 <sandro> mhausenblas: re SpotFire, can you report back on this, or invite Kingsley
12:38:23 <sandro> ted: sure
12:38:40 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Ted to gather info re SpotFire (Kingsley)
12:38:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-112 - Gather info re SpotFire (Kingsley) [on Ted Thibodeau - due 2010-09-10].
12:39:01 <sandro> mhausenblas: Nice examples, subprime, candidates
12:39:17 <sandro> mhausenblas: Good examples for contest
12:39:37 <sandro> mhausenblas: maybe you can write them down on the wiki
12:40:16 <sandro> ted: As valuable to expose the gaps as to show the final solution.    Show the GAPS in the linkage.    We know this is in a gov't data some place.
12:40:28 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
12:40:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see mhausenblas, Cory, Brand, Ted, gdick, Sandro
12:40:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see cory, gdick, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, tlr, edsu, sandro, trackbot
12:40:59 <tlr> tlr has left #egov
12:41:03 <sandro> gdick: I've heard a lot of good ideas.   I like the idea about the scientific data.   A lot of it is so old it hasn't been linked.   I'm willing to work on that.    Doing weather and astronomy data.
12:41:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:41:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:41:26 <sandro> gdick: national map is a wonderful thing, but it's imposing, so little maps are good
12:41:51 <sandro> gdick: Data that's out there, 20 years ago, still very valuable, just needs to be resurected.
12:42:52 <sandro> mhausenblas: Something we discussed here in Ireland...   noticed this is mostly driven by developers, not business need.    How to turn tech-driven to more business stuff?
12:43:18 <sandro> mhausenblas: It could be we don't just ask for apps, but also ask for apps that can be transitioned to business driven.
12:43:42 <sandro> mhausenblas: right now, often driven by what data is out there.
12:44:02 <sandro> sandro: suggestion board
12:44:17 <sandro> ... what's your dream app
12:44:31 <mhausenblas> http://lab.linkeddata.deri.ie/b2d/
12:44:38 <sandro> cory: make that part of the challenge ... what's the best dream?
12:46:39 <sandro> sandro: maybe require or reward number of data sources.   Minimum?
12:47:02 <sandro> mhausenblas: Yes, minimum 2, grading criteria rewards having many data sets.
12:47:39 <sandro> sandro: maybe the judges can take into effect that the system is designed to work with many data sets, if they were available.
12:47:57 <sandro> mhausenblas: let's meet on a weekly basis.
12:48:14 <sandro> sandro: regrets for next week, but in general weekly make sense.
12:48:20 <cory> Thanks Micheal!
12:48:23 <sandro> ADJOURN
12:48:26 <Zakim> -Brand
12:48:31 <Zakim> -Sandro
12:48:32 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
12:48:32 <cory> cory has left #egov
12:48:34 <Zakim> -gdick
12:48:38 <Zakim> -Ted
12:48:42 <Zakim> -Cory
12:48:43 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM has ended
12:48:45 <Zakim> Attendees were mhausenblas, Cory, +1.703.268.aaaa, +1.617.838.aabb, Ted, Brand, +1.508.333.aacc, gdick, Sandro
12:48:49 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:48:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:49:25 <gdick> gdick has left #egov
12:49:31 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:49:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-minutes.html mhausenblas
12:49:48 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, bye
12:49:48 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-actions.rdf :
#12:49:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to draft a strawman call incl. rules, goals, etc [1]
#12:49:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-irc#T12-14-05
12:49:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to draft a strawman call incl. rules, goals, etc [2]
12:49:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-irc#T12-14-18
12:49:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ted to gather info re SpotFire (Kingsley) [3]
12:49:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/09/03-egov-irc#T12-38-40
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