Chatlog 2010-02-12 Project 3

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<sandro> Guest: Li Ding, RPI
13:49:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
13:49:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/02/12-egov-irc
13:49:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #egov
13:49:52 <sandro> zakim, this will be egov
13:49:52 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM scheduled to start 49 minutes ago
13:59:21 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM has now started
13:59:27 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaaa
14:00:50 <Cory> Cory has joined #egov
14:00:59 <sandro> morning, Cory...
14:01:14 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:01:23 <Zakim> +Cory
14:01:27 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
14:01:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.518.276.aaaa, Sandro, Cory
14:01:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see Cory, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, trackbot, sandro
14:01:40 <Zakim> + +1.703.938.aabb
14:02:02 <sandro> zakim, aabb is Ken_Fischer
14:02:02 <Zakim> +Ken_Fischer; got it
14:02:07 <Li_Ding> Li_Ding has joined #egov
14:02:13 <Li_Ding> hello all
14:02:39 <sandro> Hello, Li_Ding 
14:04:25 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
14:08:54 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
14:08:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.518.276.aaaa, Sandro, Cory, Ken_Fischer, mhausenblas
14:09:14 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Li_Ding
14:09:14 <Zakim> +Li_Ding; got it
14:09:39 <Li_Ding> I can do it
14:09:44 <sandro> scribe: Li_Ding 
14:09:53 <Li_Ding> recap last meeting
14:10:08 <Li_Ding> everyone were in last meeting
14:10:33 <Li_Ding> get one or more project around the scence
14:10:47 <mhausenblas> q+ to propose to start with the story
14:10:56 <Li_Ding> we now request for additional ideas for demos 
14:10:59 <mhausenblas> ack me
14:10:59 <Zakim> mhausenblas, you wanted to propose to start with the story
14:11:04 <Li_Ding> Michael speaking
14:11:10 <mhausenblas> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects/GLD_Demo/Plan
14:11:45 <Li_Ding> there is a wiki page recently started, discussing a template for storyboard
14:12:17 <Li_Ding> we are looking at demos we need to have, instead of looking into what demo we have (as bottom up appoach)
14:12:37 <Li_Ding> michael and sandro are started editing wiki to make that happen
14:13:40 <Li_Ding> two sides: one from technology; and the other from the measurement, e.g. cost, metric. we need to find some way to track that
14:14:23 <Li_Ding> we need to think semantically, help us understand how demos work, such as IT dashboard
14:14:33 <Li_Ding> http://it.usaspending.gov/
14:14:49 <Cory> http://it.usaspending.gov/
14:15:00 <Li_Ding> we are trying to do something like that , but using some more semantic technologies, such as linked data
14:15:26 <Li_Ding> most team members saw that before
14:15:49 <Li_Ding> RPI has done some work on the demo
14:16:03 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Demos
14:19:42 <edsu> edsu has joined #egov
14:20:20 <edsu> you guys still meeting? (sorry i'm late, was held up by snowy-commute here in dc)
14:20:41 <Li_Ding> we yes
14:22:08 <Li_Ding> RPI have generated several demos classes
14:22:29 <Li_Ding> the first two set of demos are more traditional
14:22:49 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Demo:_Linking_USPS_Money_and_News
14:22:53 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:22:58 <edsu> zakim, LC is edsu
14:22:58 <Zakim> +edsu; got it
14:23:54 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/demo/linked/demo-401-usps-news.html
14:24:00 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Dataset_401
14:24:21 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Special:ExportRDF/Dataset_401
14:24:54 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/vocab/Dataset_401
14:25:29 <Li_Ding>  Dgtwc:complete data	http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/raw/401/data-401.nt.gz  +, and http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/raw/401/data-401.rdf  +
14:26:33 <Li_Ding>  Dgtwc:more data	http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/linked/401/agency_40123.rdf  +, and http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/linked/us_agencies.rdf  +
14:26:55 <edsu> q+ to ask about links to original data source
14:27:26 <sandro> Li_Ding: Anyone in this group can get an account on this wiki, to edit these pages
14:27:37 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Demo:_Linking_USPS_Money_and_News
14:27:55 <sandro> Li_Ding: Anyone in this group can get an account on this (http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/) wiki, to edit these pages
14:28:15 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/sparql/demo-401-usps-news-401-402.sparql
14:28:26 <sandro> q+ to ask about IT-dishboard data set
14:28:50 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/joseki/sparql-tdb-datagov.html
14:29:45 <Li_Ding> this is an experimental sparql endpoint, consists of a selection of datasets supporting our demos
14:33:07 <Li_Ding> USPS demo is a good example connecting bugget data with publicly supplied justification
14:33:31 <Li_Ding> http://www.cs.rpi.edu/~michaj6/datagov/ITSpending.html
14:34:03 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Other_Dataset_Catalog
14:34:19 <Li_Ding> it dashboard dataset Exhibit 53 is included as dataset10002
14:34:20 <sandro> q-
14:35:06 <edsu> q- # answered my own question
14:35:12 <edsu> q-
14:35:15 <Li_Ding> exhibit 53 and exhibit 300 datasets has been converted into RDF
14:35:22 <Li_Ding> in the link above
14:35:51 <edsu> q+ to ask about workflow for description creation
14:36:14 <Li_Ding> we can tour the demos at RPI to see the potential of how people can leverage government data
14:36:26 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Demo:_Aid_Visualizer_USAID_vs_DFID_2007USFY
14:36:32 <mhausenblas> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world-government-data
14:36:40 <Li_Ding> this is demo connecting US and UK dataset
14:37:16 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/demo/linked/aidviz-1554-10030.html
14:39:10 <Li_Ding> michael is showing some demos on government data search
14:39:40 <Li_Ding> http://www.google.com/unclesam
14:39:46 <Li_Ding> google provide government search
14:40:04 <edsu> Li_Ding: guardian search is cross national boundaries
14:40:14 <Li_Ding> RPI also built a search is also local
14:40:31 <Li_Ding> just for the RPI website
14:40:33 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Demo:_Semantic_Search_of_the_Data-gov_Catalog
14:41:17 <Li_Ding> : we should be able do some dynamic search
14:41:40 <Li_Ding> google also provided live search on twitter
14:42:05 <Li_Ding> : the aid spending is based on specific dataset
14:43:15 <Li_Ding> : what we can do is to find and associate new data with existing data,
14:43:29 <Li_Ding> : we should consider allowing users to freely add relevant data to a demo
14:44:08 <mhausenblas> mh: happy to take an action to draft the overall story, so feel free to assign me a task
14:44:16 <Li_Ding> : linked data can support uses to drill down for more dataset
14:45:10 <Li_Ding> : we can consider supporting users to browse and integrate data on the fly
14:45:43 <Li_Ding> : what is the workflow getting the RPI demo working
14:46:46 <Li_Ding> : what effort does it take to get the dataset 
14:46:53 <Li_Ding> Ding: this is some secrete
14:46:55 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Dataset_92
14:47:39 <Li_Ding> http://www.data.gov/data_gov_catalog.csv
14:48:52 <sandro> mhausenblas, I think in a group this size, with George absent,  you can just go ahead and do it.....
14:49:13 <mhausenblas> ok, fine, sandro, will do
14:49:19 <mhausenblas> gotta run now, sorry
14:49:33 <sandro> okay, take care, mhausenblas !
14:49:41 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
14:51:44 <Li_Ding> :getting common vocabulary for describing data right is more important than publishing data in RDF
14:53:01 <Li_Ding> : if keep the provenance of data all the way through, we can better maintain transparency and support people to connect the visualization results to the original source 
14:53:41 <Li_Ding> : it is very useful to connect the source of original data
14:54:41 <Li_Ding> Ding: it is useful in the demo to mention the data used in the demo
14:55:56 <Li_Ding> : we should try to make sure dataset description always openly accessible by the public
14:56:13 <Li_Ding> ding: data.gov has defined a set of vocabulary for dataset
14:56:15 <Li_Ding> http://www.data.gov/glossary
14:56:46 <Li_Ding> : in order to have tools working, known the metadata of dataset is very important
14:56:57 <johnlsheridan> johnlsheridan has joined #egov
14:56:58 <sandro> sandro: I think one compelling advantage of Linked Data is that we can maintain provenance, so folks seeing conclusions can easily track it back to sources.  If we do that right, we hopefully free people to publish data at various levels of confidence, comfortable in the knowledge that the metadata (like confidence level) they provide will not be lost.
14:57:42 <edsu> Li_Ding: is the description at http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Dataset_92 not fully represented in the triples you get back the rdf feed http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Special:ExportRDF/Dataset_92
14:58:04 <Li_Ding> : We hope the machine-understandable vocabulary for dataset metadata can help better demo/tool development, and we may consider use dubline core, void ontology
14:58:34 <sandro> rrsagent, make record public
14:58:39 <johnlsheridan> we are looking to use void for data.gov.uk linked data work
14:58:45 <edsu> Li_Ding: are you in convo with richard and michael about what they are working on w/r/t vocab for datasets?
14:58:52 <Li_Ding> DING: yes, the 80% metadata is from data.gov, and when we generate RDF, we put some extra annotations
14:58:57 <sandro> cory: Let's think about how to leverage all this great work....
14:59:00 <Li_Ding> yes
14:59:10 <edsu> Li_Ding: sweet
15:00:04 <Zakim> -Ken_Fischer
15:00:05 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:00:05 <Zakim> -Cory
15:00:07 <Zakim> -Li_Ding
15:00:07 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV(LD Demo)8:00AM has ended
15:00:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.518.276.aaaa, Sandro, Cory, +1.703.938.aabb, Ken_Fischer, mhausenblas, Li_Ding, edsu
15:00:13 <Li_Ding> Ding: yes, I have been work with michael on their void ontology development, and we've made some changes on the dataset, e.g. switching from DC to DCTERMS
15:00:23 <edsu> Li_Ding: cool
15:00:36 <Li_Ding> I will be happy to continue work with Michael on the dataset vocabulary design
15:00:37 <edsu> Li_Ding: not sure if you saw my question about the rdf for that dataset 92 for example
15:00:58 <edsu> Li_Ding: is there a url for the rdf/xml representation of http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Dataset_92 ?
15:01:27 <Li_Ding> edsu: the dataset 92 RDF description is from the other URI. We found that SMW has a little bit problem handling our URI naming convention.
15:01:28 <edsu> Li_Ding: i followed the 'RDF feed' icon link, but it didn't seem to return all the data that i see described in the page?
15:01:35 <Li_Ding> http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/vocab/Dataset_401
15:01:57 <edsu> Li_Ding: so looking at that HTML representation is there a way of discovering, and following nose to the rdf/xml?
15:02:03 <Li_Ding> yes
15:02:11 <Li_Ding> if you search for owl:sameAs
15:02:17 <Li_Ding> you should find the link 
15:02:30 <Li_Ding>  Owl:sameAs	http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/vocab/Dataset_92  +
15:02:38 <Li_Ding> that is as the bottom of the html page
15:02:44 <edsu> ahh
15:02:50 <edsu> so scrape it 
15:03:04 <Li_Ding> we are working on improving the interface for better UI,
15:03:20 <Li_Ding> you should see improvement soon
15:03:33 <edsu> ok -- my one suggestion would be to add at least a <link rel ...> for the rdf/xml
15:04:44 <edsu> <link rel="alternate" type="application/rdf+xml" href="http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/vocab/Dataset_92" />
15:06:26 <edsu> i guess you guys have talked about using rdfa to make the rdf available?
15:07:34 <edsu> i realize you are probably bound by whatever semantic media-wiki currently supports, but if you have spare grad students that could get rdfa support into semantic media wiki that would be awesome :-) 
15:08:02 <edsu> building on what ben andn others at creative commons started a few years ago http://wiki.creativecommons.org/RDFa_Support_for_Semantic_Media_Wiki
15:08:33 <edsu> sorry, for blathering on like this -- i'm basically just really excited about the work you guys are doing with the data.gov data :-)
15:10:48 <Li_Ding> thanks
15:11:18 <Li_Ding> we have already get RDFa embedded in our dataset page
15:12:14 <Li_Ding> if you open the source page, you should see something like the following
15:12:18 <Li_Ding> <div id='RDFa' about='http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/wiki/Dataset_92' xmlns:wiki_1='http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/w/index.php/'xmlns:wiki_1_property='http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/w/index.php/Property:'xmlns:wiki_1_category='http://data-gov.tw.rpi.edu/w/index.php/Category:' typeof='wiki_1_category:Dgtwc:Dataset' typeof='wiki_1_category:Converted Dataset' typeof='wiki_1_category:Data.gov Dataset'>
15:12:20 <Li_Ding> <a href='wiki_1:Executive_Office_of_the_President' rel='wiki_1_property:92/agency'></a>
15:12:21 <Li_Ding> <div property='wiki_1_property:92/agency_data_series_page' content='http://www.data.gov'></div>
15:12:23 <Li_Ding> <div property='wiki_1_property:92/agency_program_page' content='http://www.data.gov'></div>
15:12:31 <edsu> yeah, i see some
15:12:41 <Li_Ding> I can discuss RDFa usage in the next telecon
15:14:34 <edsu> i see this, with the rdfa highlighter: http://inkdroid.org/tmp/data-gov-tw-screenshot.png
15:14:41 <edsu> Li_Ding: that would be great
15:15:50 <Li_Ding> thanks for the screen shot
15:17:56 <Li_Ding> Li_Ding has joined #egov
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