XML Processing Model WG

16 Mar 2006


See also: IRC log


Paul, Rui, Murray, Alex, Henry, Alessandro, Norman
Erik, Andrew, Michael, Richard (proxy to Henry)



Accept this agenda?

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/03/16-agenda.html

Murray asks about XInclude

The input to XInclude is intended to be "the document on which XInclude is to be performed"

Agenda accepted

Accept minutes from the previous teleconference?

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2006/02/23-minutes.html


Norm observes that Richard may have wanted more time at the f2f and encourages him to post any questions or concerns he finds

Accept minutes from the face-to-face?






Next meeting: 23 Mar telcon

Any regrets?

None given


XProc Requirements and Use Cases

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/langreq.html

Alex reports a few minor changes

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2006Mar/0017.html

Use case 5.6

Norm suggests remove step 3 from the output example

Use case 5.27

This is a subtree/viewport use case

Norm reports that it's clear to him

Use case 5.28

Alex will clarify the use of markers and transformations

Murray suggests calling the marker a "stub" would help

Murray: This use case is a bit prescriptive. But it's a use case not a requirement so it's ok.

Alex: I don't care if we don't meet this use case exactly this way, but I'd like to be able to accomplish it

Use case 5.29

Alex: For something like XQuery, you might want to simply fail if you don't have the component
... But here, you could fall back to XSLT 1.0 if you didn't have 2.0

See also 5.30.

Use case 5.31

Henry: We should consider the order of use cases, but perhaps not this week.
... I'd like an important aspect of 5.32 to be called out (see the comment in my email)
... The important point is that some of the PSVI properties have to survive across steps
... Note that there's no way to reorder these steps: this is the only order that works because the schema doesn't accept xml:base attributes, but the expansion requires xs:anyURI typed values.

Use case 5.26

Norm: I think we simply need some feedback from the DSDL folks about how validation and transformation relate and how much of that depends on pipelining.

Henry: Step 7 is the interesting step in a use case that claims to be about validation

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to contact the DSDL folks about this use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

Alex: I don't understand why there's transformation in the validation use case
... Where's the 'I validated all the pieces but now I know the whole thing is valid' step?

Murray: I think if we have a problem with the use cases, we can just put a comment in indicating an issue

Alex reports that he was planning to make another pass

On the question of order


Murray: I guess the ordering rule is something I can't describe in detail, but basically the use cases that concern us most need to be up front. The use cases that expose issues that are addressed later should be organized for "progressive exposure"
... Put the 60% use cases first, then the remaining ones after and by the time you get to the last one, you're really way out on the edge

Alex: Ok, that's pretty clear, I can take a stab with those directions.

For next week hopefully, we'll have an improved DSDL use case, we'll have an improved table of use-case/requirement pairings, and a suggested order for the use cases and requirements.

Norm: Personally, I think you should work on the table last because I think it could just be delted.

Alex: Deleting it is one possibility.

Murray: I think it should be possible to follow your nose from use cases to requirements and that's as far as I think we have to go
... We'll have to explore any requirements that don't have use cases

Norm: I think it's really important to get a first working draft of this document out this month.
... So we should plan to vote on that next week or give a really concise summary of what needs to change so that we can vote on the 30th.

General agreement.

Alex: I'll try to go through with an editorial fine-toothed comb

Murray: It'd be valuable to have 24-48 hours of frozen text before I do that

Alex: I'll try to send it out for this later this week.

Murray: For each of the requirements and use cases, I assume there's an ID. Can you expose what they are?

Alex: Yes, I can do that.

Norm: Any other comments?
... Ok, then go ahead and publish it as soon as you can Alex

Conditionals or another issue

Norm: In the general realm of conditional, it wasn't clear to me how to bind xpath expressions to a particular document
... I thought Alessandro's suggestion of binding the document to the conditional was a clever idea

Murray: What about a test against three documents?

Henry: Are you asking about a conditional that isn't based on the primary

Norm tries to explain his question about conditionals

Henry: I wish Richard was here. In Richard's ontology, all you have is pipes and components and you plug them toghether. I think his conception of the conditional component was one that had one input and no outputs and that was the conditonal flow.
... So the input to the conditional was the one against which the evaluation was performed

Norm: I think it'd help to see an example like that

Murray: Implicit in what I just heard from Henry was that there could be any number of conditional components.
... I could create a conditional that was derived from my own inference engine, for example, and make their determination based on that.
... We could offer a number of conditional components that behave in a variety of ways but we'll never cover all the possible scenarios.

Norm: So it's a component that you can plug in and the component is used to branch on the conditional

Murray: And the component might not return true or false it might set a bunch of different variables

Norm: We'd have to work out how a component could set variables in the environment, which is something we've danced around

Alex: It seems like there's a distinction here between things you can statically analyze and things that are input driven.

Norm: Yep

Alex: Even if we use a component to do that, which inputs does it use.

Norm: We already have a story of how components take inputs
... That satisfies my desire to talk about conditionals, we've got more options on the table.

Any any other business

Murray asks about a face-to-face

Murray offers to host a f2f north of Toronto either the week before or after Extreme

Henry: After would work much better for me

Norm: Murray will you post this in mail?

Murray: Yes, I'll try to do that today.

Norm: We are adjourned.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Norm to contact the DSDL folks about this use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/16-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2006/03/28 19:40:49 $