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WAI UA Telecon for May 3rd, 2001

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Thursday, 3 May 2001
Time: 2:00-3:30 pm Eastern Standard Time, USA
Call-in: Longfellow Bridge (+1) (617) 252-1038


Review Action Items




  1. Extension of last call review period until 14 May
  2. Continue Implementation Report review


Chair:Jon Gunderson

Scribe: Jim Allan

Harvey Bingham
Gregory Rosmatia
David Poehlman

Ian Jacobs
Tim Lacy
Eric Hansen

Action Item Summary

Open Action Items

  1. IJ: Edit the text of checkpoints 2.1, 2.2, 8.1, and 8.2 so that UAs are not required to conform for all formats that are implemented.
    Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference
  2. IJ: Make mention of animations, text streams, and refresh in the document.
    Source: Minutes 19 April 2001 Teleconference
  3. IJ: Coordinate usability testing of the guidelines (JRG volunteers to be one of the testers).
    Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0137
  4. CMN: Find out from SYMM WG whether repositioning of objects will appear in the spec (or should be in UAAG).
    Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0357
  5. RS: Send pointer to information about universal access gateway to the WG.
    Source: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2001JanMar/0258
  6. GR: Review event checkpoints for techniques
  7. GR: support for no-script lynx longdesc - webspeak, HPR
  8. GR: write different markup (list of elements) that 2.9 applies to, for clarification.
  9. MQ: Review speech checkpoints

New Action Items

  1. JG: send message to chairs list and review list
  2. GR: will send test pages to list
  3. GR: Screen shot of Lynx for refresh, and redirect.

Completed Action Items

  1. DP: support for no-script HPR
  2. JG: check with opera how they comply with 2.4
    They do not claim to comply, they say it doesn't apply
  3. JA: Test object in opera
    It works and when images


1.Extension of last call review period until 14 May

JG: Real Media and others (working groups) asked for extension for deadline to May 14.

No objections from group.

Resolved - Extend deadline to May 14.

Action JG: send message to chairs list and review list

2.Continue Implementation Report review

JG: move from working with document to working with developers, and educating them, and finding implementation.

HB: need a list of checkpoints we don't have good implementation on. would be a good thing to send to implementors.

JG: we want to work individually with developers, translate document to specific developer concerns. Ian doing a good job of educating. Lists don't seem to work well, things get confusing. We are working on educating developers. Techniques doc is huge 6-700 KB. Developers need specific requirements. need a good techniques document to serve as examples. they are not a replacement for working with developers.

Implementaion Report- Guideline 3

Checkpoint 3.1 backgound imagecan configure most browsers by turning off images

no alerting mechanism for availability of images

HB: techniques- css allows back ground images on and off. users can control this.

JG: need alerting part-do we know of anyone has done it.

GR: author could do it with java script

GR: could do with css3 pseudo element to hover. theoretically, could display as tool tip or convention for rendering pseudo content.

Checkpoint 3.2 place holder for animation animated images>

IE may--

IE has separate settings for show image and play animation. (not sure about place holder)

IE if animation turned off, animated gif shows but does not move. if images not on, and show place holder turned on then IE is ok.

IE stop animation with ESC key, this is global, stops everything on page.

GR: turning off animation causes them not to play. no independent way to turn off rendering of static image. bound to images on off. no way to interact specifically with animation.

JG: current requirement does not say by itself. guidelines are more global rather than specific.

GR: IE does not comply.

DP: seems to.

GR: view author supplied content. when place holders are rendered, you can view the original author supplied content. if images and animation turned off, should be able to restart animation from contest menu

JA: IE does not comply.

GR: what's missing is configuration by cascade,

video: no implementation

sound: no implementation

JG: need test suites/pages

GR: 3 steps not render, have video as static- then run, or always run

JG: IE has function of show animation, play sound, play video.

GR: can user start object by using context menu. we are seeking granularity of control.

JG: IE had video turned off, but imbedded video object still played. UA does not know what an object does. but may be able to tell from mime type.

GR: when objects are embedded in non-mouse environment. all keyboard binding are part of browser. the user has no control of embedded object. if function is handed off to other application, then user has control.

JG: can you configure any media player to not play a media type.

DP: do it through the operating system. do not play RAM files or other type.

JG: in quicktime have a setting to automatically play new movies when started. can this be considered a place holder.

JA: I would be place holder.

DP: place holder is something that would recognize a pass-off to another application.

GR: I associate all media types to be played by Real Player. If media type embedded, would expect to see the real icon, then activate to start

JG: what about link to a movie.

GR: nba playoff game, live feed, pop ups in separate window (no keyboard control), but has a link for play in real player.

JG: if embedded then it is scripting.

GR: with CNN, its javascript written into link, rather than code in html. need access to what is referenced.

Checkpoint 3.3 blinking text IE and Opera

GR: has test page for blinking/scrolling. Did it for ER,

JG: rewrite page, with code, expectations,

** Action GR: will send test pages to list

Checkpoint 3.4 scripting

IE has disable list but not alert user

Opera can disable, does not warn user

DP: sometimes you see, "you need X in order render page" does this apply.

JG: does not apply,

GR: for css conformant browser, would be easy to add place holder- to insert text as place holder.

JG: reviewing Opera scripting off with CNN page

Checkpoint 3.5 client side redirect, configuration of refresh on user request lynx

question does this include scripting refresh need a test bed page

GR: use meta information, or scripting. base functionality is Lynx. provides link for new page, displays code to see time increment allows user to manually refresh at will.

**Action GR: screen shot of Lynx for refresh, and redirect.

Checkpoint 3.6 Redirect

lynx ?? does this include scripting redirects

Checkpoint 3.7 configuration of not render images



Checkpoint 3.8 view content of place holder, turn off rendering

IE - if you refresh page then rendering reverts to place holder

Lynx - uses external viewer.

possible techniques- when place holder rendered instead of image, when user request viewing, use an external program to render. then user can turn off viewer.

JG: have separate checkpoints for scripting.

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