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UA Telecon for August 12th, 1998

Chair: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wednesday, August 12
Time: 11:00am to 12:00noon Eastern Standard Time
Call-in: +1-617-252-1038


11:00-11:30 Tables

11:30-11:55 Keyboard support issues

11:55-12:00 Action items and work assignments


Dennis Anson

Kitch Barnicle

Harvey Bingham

Judy Brewer

Daniel Dardailler

Jon Gunderson (Chair)

Markku T. Hakkinen

Kathy Hewitt

Ian Jacobs

Marja-Riitta Koivunen


Jim Allan

Napoleon Maou

Action Items and Conclusions

Table Serialization WD update: HB, MH, KB, JG

Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in next telecon on August 26th

Keyboard acess WD udate: JG, DA

Will produce an update to the working draft by August 19th and be reviewed in next telecon on August 26th


Topic: Tables

jg: dd could you give us an overview of tables

dd: html 4.0 has new markup for tables and allows for semantic representations

tables used for layout

project at sofia on serialization of tables using a proxy server

navigation is more difficult problem to test with proxy server

da: 2 dimensional to 1 a diminsional table

dd: serialization of tables

hb: column by column rather than by line by line

kh: what about table and column header

how woul you designate column headers

dd: for each cell you can identify the column header, this can be repeated the renders

ij: in css there is a speak header

mk: you should able do it on the fly

dd: how much we can do in user agent. a proxy is limited

kh: this information could be exposed to user agent

dd: this an ideal case if other groups cooperated. the current project is a proxy.

jg: We maybe able to using a script in IE to test some of these principles

dd: I would like to know how this would be better than the proxy approach

jg: It may be able to support navigation

da: the cell relationsip information is important and should be preserved in some types of tables

dd: proxy is can do the same as script for serialization

da: could proxy add cell navigation through anchors

dd: it could be done, but it may clutter visual display

proxy can not provide navigation

hb: each cell has its own domain, units could indicate the number of row and colum cells

dd: proxy server approach will be reviewed by wai groups

user agent guideline implication need to be identified

kh: i need information on what the user needs

jg: repeated specs in current wd

dd: we have info from lynx and pwWebSpeak

da: there may be times that row by row is better than column by column

jb: what about having a do another way button or command

dd: support table semantics, second level, organization

Opera may implement turning off table display, simple serialization

Asking developers to make even simple changes requires testing

jg: move current selection

dd: Opera uses this technique already

supported by screen readers

What does screen reader do and what does screen reader do

da: dragon dictate does read tables

dd: screen readers provide support for reading selected text

da: screen readers

kb: screen readers are

New topic: Keyboard control

jg: overview of current wd on direct selection

hb: twisties is another example

expanding and contracting lists of lists

da: explorer interface?

hb: look at higher level topics and search

jg: overview of direct navigation

mk: it is needed

da: pages are just weigh stations to somewhere else

dd: this can be done with dom, i have seen this

kb: not just a question of taking out links

mh: customization capability to move to specifuc html tag information, skip over advertising

kb: is it still sequential

mh: go to next markup target

jg: we could use pwWebSpeak

mh: we ship with different style sheets

mk: different pages want different

kb: looked at discussion list on voice input and people complain about tab interface

mh: phone interfaces can use audio style sheets

da: is this a problem for poorly designed WWW pages

mh: semantic information is already help

dd: UA WD doesn't have information about poor web design like "click here"

UA can do alot of potential things

da: what about image maps?

dd: client side you can do things and server side not much

client could look at URL title, for click heres

kh: performance woul suffer, page author guidelines

da: could it be a background task?

hw: browsers would be looking for stuff all the time and there would be performance problems. What would browsers need to look for?

poor use of network band width,

mh: It seems like a lot of work and potential performance problems

jb: Summary of keyboard navigation

Direct selection is a good idea in general

Selection of controls anchors vs. non-control and non-anchor elements

Use of HTML markup for direct selection

da: do we want acess to only well designed pages or what is really out there?

jg: gave tables for layout example as a similar problem

good bys

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