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Bug 8716 - Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers with Suggested Text for Short Text Alternatives
Summary: Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers with Suggested Text for Short T...
Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: pre-LC1 HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Macintosh All
: P3 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-lev...
Whiteboard: alt
Keywords: a11y, a11ytf, a11y_text-alt, TrackerIssue
: 9218 (view as bug list)
Depends on: 6496 7362 8171 8646 9212 9213 9214 9215 9216 9217
Blocks: 10708
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2010-01-11 19:57 UTC by Laura Carlson
Modified: 2013-02-14 16:36 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description Laura Carlson 2010-01-11 19:57:32 UTC
The current guidance for conformance checkers is unclear and does not implement WAI CG's advice for short text alternatives.

For conformance checker guidance [1], please list out the required short text alternative options that are required for images to be considered valid as advised by WAI CG.

RATIONALE:

 * A succinct list would provide clarity of all valid options at a glance.
 * Since WAI CG condones a Flickr loophole, it should at least be included at the element level, rather than the document level or it could be too easy for authors just to tag the document and not bother with any alternative for images.
 * Bug 8646 lists rationale for removing the email loophole.

DETAILS:

Replace the Current Text:

"A conformance checker must report the lack of an alt attribute as an error unless either the conditions listed above for images whose contents are not known apply, or the conformance checker has been configured to assume that the document is an e-mail or document intended for a specific person who is known to be able to view images, or the document has a meta element with a name attribute whose value is an ASCII case-insensitive match for the string 'generator'."

With Suggested Text:

"A conformance checker MUST report the lack of a short text alternative as an error. The img element is only valid when at least one of the following is true:

 * alt is present (empty or non-empty) OR
 * @aria-labelledby is present (non-empty only) OR
 * the <img> is located within a <figure> that has a non-empty <legend> OR
 * @role="presentation"  OR
 * <img> has  an attribute other than alt whose value is an ASCII case-insensitive match for the string 'generator'."

IMPACT:

 1. Would list validity options, to improve clarity.
 2. Would remove the email loophole. Please see bug 8646 for rationale [2].
 3. Would change the "generator" option from document level to element level, to allow checking individual images.
 4. Would implement advice provided from the WAI CG [3]

CONFORMANCE CLASS CHANGES:

Create an attribute that allows a "generator" string per WAI CG advice, which states:

<quote>
Recommendations regarding auto-generated alternative text

We have reached the following consensus concerning "automatically generated" alternative text: In order to address both the validity and human generation concerns, we do not oppose the creation of 'autogenerated' and 'missing' attributes where either one of these could be used to make an image that does not have any human-generated text alternatives valid. (Note: It is important that this marker is not included in the alternative text string itself.)"
<unquote>

References

[1] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-level-semantics.html#guidance-for-conformance-checkers
[2] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8646
[3] http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5
Comment 1 Laura Carlson 2010-01-23 13:28:05 UTC
For the updated description, rationale and links for this bug, please visit:

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Bugs/img_Guidance_for_Conformance_Checkers

Thanks.

This relates to ISSUE-31 "What to do when a reasonable text equivalent is unknown/unavailable?"
Comment 2 Laura Carlson 2010-02-03 18:12:14 UTC
Please refer to the Change Proposal: "Replace img guidance for conformance checkers with suggested text" [1] for the latest details.

Thank you.

[1] http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126

HTML TRACKER ISSUE-31:
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

The full issue and is detailed at:
Omitting Short Text Alternatives on <img>
http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/IssueAltAttribute
Comment 3 Michael Cooper 2010-02-11 17:18:28 UTC
The HTML Accessibility Task Force intends to track these issues, per the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0245.html.
Comment 4 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-02-23 06:22:34 UTC
This bug seems to mix a whole bunch of things together.

The only item that I can clearly understand from the original request is a request to split the paragraph "Guidance for conformance checkers" such that the individual points are given as a bulleted list.

Please file separate bugs for other issues if there are any, ideally keeping the bug description self-contained, concise, and clearly describing the spec problem (which is more important than the proposed solution).


Insofar as the one item from this bug that I _did_ understand goes:

EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Partially Accepted
Change Description: see diff given below
Rationale: I guess it's worth trying to make this more readable. I've duplicated the text from #unknown-images and put it into the validator section, in an attempt to follow the suggestion. I'm not sure this is a real improvement though, to be honest. If anyone thinks it was better without the duplication, please file a bug to that effect.
Comment 5 contributor 2010-02-23 07:03:38 UTC
Checked in as WHATWG revision r4795.
Check-in comment: attempt to make this more readable
http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=4794&to=4795
Comment 6 Laura Carlson 2010-03-10 13:00:38 UTC
The "Guidance for conformance checkers" section of the spec is indeed more readable.
http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-level-semantics.html#guidance-for-conformance-checkers

Thank you for making it a list.

But the substantive parts of this bug were not addressed. 

Adding TrackerIssue Keyword.

This bug is part of the change proposal, "Replace img Guidance for
Conformance Checkers" for HTML WG Issue 31.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/31

WAI CG Consensus Resolutions on Text alternatives in HTML 5 specifically
recommends:

<img> is only valid when at least one of the following is true:

 * @alt is present (empty or non-empty) OR
 * @aria-labelledby is present (non-empty only) OR
 * the <img> is located within a <figure> that has a non-empty <legend now figcaption> OR
 * @role="presentation"

It also states they would not oppose creation of a 'autogenerated' and 'missing' attributes.

http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5
Comment 7 Anne 2010-03-10 13:05:58 UTC
Removing the keyword as the bug should be resolved in some manner when it is added as far as I know.
Comment 8 Maciej Stachowiak 2010-03-14 15:38:10 UTC
I think the reason the bug ended up in an inconsistent state was that Laura both added the TrackerIssue keyword and reopened the bug, where only one of those two actions should have been done. Laura, do you want this reopened for fresh consideration by the editor, or marked with TrackerIssue to indicate we are handling it with the escalation policy?
Comment 9 Laura Carlson 2010-03-15 12:01:58 UTC
(In reply to comment #8)
> I think the reason the bug ended up in an inconsistent state was that Laura
> both added the TrackerIssue keyword and reopened the bug, where only one of
> those two actions should have been done. Laura, do you want this reopened for
> fresh consideration by the editor, or marked with TrackerIssue to indicate we
> are handling it with the escalation policy?

Hi Maciej,

This bug is in the escalation process and I have written a change proposal.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126
Issue 31 missing-alt predates the decision process, as I raised it 2008-02-07.

But you asked me to give Ian another opportunity to fix the issue. 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0803.html
I have been working in the accessibility task force in this effort.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0007.html

Issue 31 is a big issue. That needs comprehensive attention.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0328.html

The other bugs that this bug 8716 is related to and has dependencies on are:

6496
7362
8171
8646
9212
9213
9214
9215
9216
9217
9218

I hope that the issue is fixed. But if that doesn't happen, the change proposal exists to resolve the matter for Issue 31, which is already a tracker issue. 
Comment 10 Laura Carlson 2010-03-23 15:46:06 UTC
*** Bug 9218 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 11 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-04-02 01:21:18 UTC
I have no idea what's going on with this bug. What is the problem I'm supposed to be fixing?
Comment 12 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-04-12 07:51:10 UTC
Laura?
Comment 13 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-08-16 21:59:58 UTC
Please reassign to me once the problem is described.
Comment 14 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-11-11 23:01:15 UTC
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Did Not Understand Request
Change Description: no spec change
Rationale: I don't understand. Could you elaborate?
Comment 15 Laura Carlson 2011-01-01 20:14:47 UTC
This bug  has already been escalated for HTML Issue 31 and the Change Proposal has been written.
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126

Re-adding the TrackerIssue keyword for this bug per Comment 6.

Changing status to WONTFIX as the editor has written his own Change Proposal for Issue 31.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jul/0050.html
Comment 16 steve faulkner 2013-02-14 16:36:26 UTC
the status of the conformance expectations has been agreed and is reflected in the CR of HTML5