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Bug 8401 - Remove section 4.12 regarding idioms
Summary: Remove section 4.12 regarding idioms
Status: CLOSED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: pre-LC1 HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Macintosh Mac System 9.x
: P3 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: NE, WGDecision
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2009-11-30 04:12 UTC by Shelley Powers
Modified: 2011-02-22 20:19 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:

Attachments

Description Shelley Powers 2009-11-30 04:12:06 UTC 
This is an interesting section, but all it does is provide suggested usage, and any such suggested usage should be given in a Primer, if given by the W3C at all. 

By including in the specification, we run the risk of over-specifying how HTML is to be used. Since there is nothing in the section related to user agents, conformance or any other form of validation, and it specifically to do with how existing elements can be used in different circumstances, I suggest to just remove the section. If this group puts out a primer, usage suggestions such as these can be picked up again.

There is a note earlier in the document, in the definition element section (dl) that references the section related to conversation. I'm not sure why HTML5 is bucking against previous versions of HTML regarding what elements can be used for a dialog, but regardless: a note just saying that the use of dl for dialog is discouraged, and perhaps a reason why (since this is a change). And leave it at that.
Comment 1 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-01-08 10:35:03 UTC 
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Rejected
Change Description: no spec change
Rationale: This section was added at the request of authors who wanted to know what the spec suggested for the topics it mentions. Therefore removing it would be doing authors a disservice, and authors take priority.
Comment 2 Shelley Powers 2010-01-08 13:55:46 UTC 
It's an interesting rationale, and I can have some sympathy, but the specification should focus on what is necessary for conformance, and for correct usage -- not possible variations. If included in the specification, what is nothing more than a recommendation could be seen as a requirement. This could inhibit the free, and correct use of markup, and we don't want to inhibit creativity--only prevent incorrect usage. 

I am going to escalate this to a tracker request. The title of this bug can be used for issue title, and the text of the original comment can be used for the body of the issue.
Comment 3 Maciej Stachowiak 2010-01-08 14:01:03 UTC 
Feel free to raise your own tracker issue as well, if you still have an account.
Comment 4 Shelley Powers 2010-01-08 16:20:44 UTC 
This has been escalated to the tracker database, as ISSUE-89

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/89