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Bug 7392 - Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses
Summary: Please use some term other than "URL" for Web Addresses
Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: pre-LC1 HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: PC All
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Michael[tm] Smith
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: NE, TrackerIssue
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2009-08-21 07:40 UTC by Maciej Stachowiak
Modified: 2010-10-04 14:46 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description Maciej Stachowiak 2009-08-21 07:40:24 UTC
The term URL has a technical meaning that doesn't match the HTML5 spec. Even though the spec points this out, some find this confusing or objectionable. Please consider using an alternate term, such as "Web Address" or "HREF" (following IRIbis) or "HURL" (for HTML URL) or anything that doesn't conflict with IETF specs in this area. Such a change would be cosmetic but it would not be obviously harmful and would apparently remove objections.
Comment 1 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2009-08-21 07:47:52 UTC
"URL" is what everyone outside the standards world calls them. The few people who understand what on earth IRI, URN, URI, and URL are supposed to mean and how to distinguish them have demonstrated that they are able to understand such complicated terminology and can deal with the reuse of the term "URL". Others, who think "URL" mean exactly what the HTML5 spec defines it as, have not demonstrated an ability to understand these subtleties and are better off with us using the term they're familiar with.

The real solution is for the URI and IRI specs to be merged, for the URI spec to change its definitions to match what "URL" is defined as in HTML5 (e.g. finally defining error handling as part of the core spec), and for everyone to stop using terms other than "URL".

Thus, marking this WONTFIX.
Comment 2 Julian Reschke 2009-09-08 06:37:30 UTC
The "real" solution, as proposed by Ian Hickson, has been discussed, is controversial, and is not going to happen.

As far as I can tell, we should either re-open this bug, or track the issue in the Tracker (not sure whether it is covered by http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56)
Comment 3 Michael[tm] Smith 2009-09-08 07:09:30 UTC
Reassigned to me pending discussion of what further action is needed.
Comment 4 Maciej Stachowiak 2009-09-08 07:10:45 UTC
Since Ian has given his disposition, I think a tracker issue would be appropriate. It would probably be worthwhile to have a separate issue for the naming, as opposed to for updating the spec reference.
Comment 5 Michael[tm] Smith 2009-09-08 07:44:24 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> Since Ian has given his disposition, I think a tracker issue would be
> appropriate. It would probably be worthwhile to have a separate issue for the
> naming, as opposed to for updating the spec reference.

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/78

Comment 6 Michael[tm] Smith 2009-09-08 07:59:06 UTC
moved to Tracker

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/78
Comment 7 Maciej Stachowiak 2010-03-14 14:49:52 UTC
This bug predates the HTML Working Group Decision Policy.

If you are satisfied with the resolution of this bug, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
  http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

This bug is now being moved to VERIFIED. Please respond within two weeks. If this bug is not closed, reopened or escalated within two weeks, it may be marked as NoReply and will no longer be considered a pending comment.
Comment 8 Larry Masinter 2010-03-18 17:35:36 UTC
I added comments to Bug 8116  (http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8116 ) which doesn't seem to be linked here.

Note that change proposal
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Feb/0882.html for ISSUE-56
(http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/56) at least explains that this
specification uses "URL" in ways different than the rest of the web community
(and also, by using URL for relative forms) in ways that are not even common in
the public literature.

Note also that the IETF document draft-ietf-iri-3987bis
(http://tools.ietf.org/wg/iri/draft-ietf-iri-3987bis/) contains advice about
using "URL" in formal documents, and there is a bug report
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/iri/trac/ticket/9 which discusses that issue.

Since the response to this bug was "We (the standards community) really need to
give up on this naming nonsense and just go back to URL, which is what everyone
else calls them.", it would seem appropriate get the standards community to
follow that advice.

See also
http://masinter.blogspot.com/2010/03/resources-are-angels-urls-are-pins.html
for some history.