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Bug 5807 - User Agent display of title attribute content not defined
Summary: User Agent display of title attribute content not defined
Status: VERIFIED NEEDSINFO
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: pre-LC1 HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson) (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: All All
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: a11y, NoReply
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-06-26 11:51 UTC by steve faulkner
Modified: 2010-10-04 13:56 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description steve faulkner 2008-06-26 11:51:04 UTC
There is no instruction or guidance in the HTML5 specification on how user agents should provide access to the content of the title attribute. Currently no browsers provide access to title attribute content (firefox does provide it , but in a way that is next to useless and not in any way equivalent to the method that mouse users can access it) for users who cannot use a mouse. This is a serious accessibility barrier. It is proposed that the specification include normative instructions for user agents to provide fucntionally equivalent access the title attribute content using the keyboard.
Comment 1 James Graham 2008-06-26 12:00:37 UTC
Generally the spec does not mandate UI  note there is no requirement that mouse users be given access to the title attribute contents via a tooltip  and there are certainly conditions in which any normative text would be inappropriate (consider a browser showing adverts in Time Square). This request seems like it would be better handled in UAAG. 
Comment 2 steve faulkner 2008-06-26 12:39:02 UTC
hi graham, 
>Generally the spec does not mandate UI  note there is no requirement that
>mouse users be given access to the title attribute contents via a tooltip.

mostly it is implied,if title attribute content was not available in some manner then it would be pretty much useless.  

> and there are certainly conditions in which any normative text would be
>inappropriate (consider a browser showing adverts in Time Square). 

It would depend on what the nroamtive text is would it not?

>This request seems like it would be better handled in UAAG. 
It is coverd in UAAG, so I propose that a reference to the applicable section of UAAG within the title section (http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#the-title) would be in appropriate.
Comment 3 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2008-06-26 22:56:58 UTC
I don't think it would be wise to have a bazillion links to UAAG all the way along HTML5. Better to have UA developers read UAAG separately.

It's not clear to me what you would want HTML5 to say, anyway. Surely how accessibility they are is something browser vendors will naturally compete over?
Comment 4 steve faulkner 2008-06-27 09:10:12 UTC
(In reply to comment #3)
> I don't think it would be wise to have a bazillion links to UAAG all the way
> along HTML5. Better to have UA developers read UAAG separately.
> It's not clear to me what you would want HTML5 to say, anyway. Surely how
> accessibility they are is something browser vendors will naturally compete
> over?

I don't think it would be wise to have a bazillion links to UAAG all the way
> along HTML5.

I haven't proposed that "a bazillion links to UAAG" be added. I have proposed that one link be added to point vendors to requirements for providing access to conditional content, that has never been exposed to non mouse users in a usable way. 



>Surely how
> accessibility they are is something browser vendors will naturally compete
> over?

obviuosly not. 

Suggested text addition:
UA requirements for showing the title attribute content: UAs must expose the title attribute content(conditional content [1]) via a device independent mechanism.

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-conditional-content
Comment 5 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2008-07-03 16:15:34 UTC
> I haven't proposed that "a bazillion links to UAAG" be added. I have proposed
> that one link be added to point vendors to requirements for providing access to
> conditional content, that has never been exposed to non mouse users in a usable
> way.

Sure, but it's an obvious slippery slope. The same could be said of many parts of the language, and the obvious thing to do is to add more and more links across the spec.

It isn't clear to me that any links to UAAG are going to make the slightest difference anyway.


> > Surely how
> > accessibility they are is something browser vendors will naturally compete
> > over?
> 
> obviuosly not. 

I don't see why not. It certainly has been happening over other areas, e.g. ARIA support went from basically nothing to near-complete implementations in all four major browsers in less than a year. That's better adoption than almost any part of HTML5.


> Suggested text addition:
> UA requirements for showing the title attribute content: UAs must expose the
> title attribute content(conditional content [1]) via a device independent
> mechanism.

A "must" is clearly not an option, given that there's no way (e.g.) a Times Square browser (a huge display with a UI that basically consists of tracking everyone's movements to decide where next to go) would be able to have the ability to show title attributes.

Nor do I see that it is really a "device independent" mechanism that we really need here; it's more that you want every device/media combination to be able to show the data. But that's just good practice for anything, I don't see how it is specific to the title attribute.
Comment 6 Michael Cooper 2010-02-11 17:26:18 UTC
Per the proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0245.html, the HTML A11Y TF does not plan to formally work on this issue at this time. This does not mean the TF has no interest in it, but does not have immediate plans to work on it. The TF may review the issue in the future.
Comment 7 Maciej Stachowiak 2010-03-14 13:14:35 UTC
This bug predates the HTML Working Group Decision Policy.

If you are satisfied with the resolution of this bug, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If
you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

This bug is now being moved to VERIFIED. Please respond within two weeks. If this bug is not closed, reopened or escalated within two weeks, it may be marked as NoReply and will no longer be considered a pending comment.