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Bug 5425 - Revise Composition
Summary: Revise Composition
Status: RESOLVED LATER
Alias: None
Product: XML Schema
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Structures: XSD Part 1 (show other bugs)
Version: 1.1 only
Hardware: PC Windows XP
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
QA Contact: XML Schema comments list
URL:
Whiteboard: composition cluster
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2008-01-25 22:04 UTC by David Ezell
Modified: 2008-06-13 17:04 UTC (History)
0 users

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Description David Ezell 2008-01-25 22:04:11 UTC
We have a proposal from Michael Kay on how to revise the story on composition.
Intro: 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xml-schema-ig/2007Aug/0031.html 
              
Proposal: 
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2007/08/composition-2.pdf
Comment 1 David Ezell 2008-01-25 22:05:54 UTC
We spent considerable time discussing this issue at the October, 2007 f2f in Redmond.  Please see the meeting minutes for details:
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2007/10/xml-schema-ftf-minutes
Comment 2 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2008-05-29 06:30:59 UTC
A wording proposal intended to resolve this issue in part is at
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2004/06/xmlschema-1/structures.b2224.html
(memger-only link).

The resolution is only partial, because the proposal does not actually
repair any problems directly; it only deprecates xs:redefine in order
to warn schema authors away from it and make it possible to remove
the feature at some future date.
Comment 3 Michael Kay 2008-05-29 15:17:25 UTC
If we decide to make a feature deprecated then I think we should also at the same time make it optional - that is, conforming processors should not be required to implement the feature. This provides users with a stronger incentive to stop using the feature than merely annoucing that future revisions of the spec might drop the feature, and it relieves new implementors from the burden of implementing something that users are being discouraged from using.
Comment 4 Noah Mendelsohn 2008-05-29 21:34:55 UTC
Well, I understand where MK is coming from on this, but on balance I think that making <redefine> in particular optional would be a mistake at this point.  Granting that there is troubling variability in the way that it is implemented, I suspect that the simple cases interoperate reasonably well, and that at least some users will depend on that.  In general, we have tried (at least I think we've tried) to make it the case that Schema 1.0 documents will work as well when given to Schema 1.1 processors as they do when given to Schema 1.0 processors.  

I'm lukewarm about the proposal to deprecate <redefine>, since we don't yet have implementation experience to prove that <override> will work well.  I'm optimistic, but it's still early.  Still, on balance, I can pretty easily live with deprecating as long as support is required.  I don't think I can live with making it optional.

So, if your argument carries the day on style grounds, and the group comes to agree that deprecate should imply optional, then I have to take a pretty strong stance that it can't be deprecated.  If that argument does not carry the day, then I'm quite OK with making having support required in processors, but use deprecated for schema authors, as I believe is proposed in the current draft.

Noah
Comment 5 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2008-06-07 01:28:03 UTC
The proposal mentioned in comment #2 was adopted by the XML Schema WG
on today's call.

Since the proposal at best ameliorates, but does not resolve, this 
issue I am not changing the status of the issue, only removing
the keyword 'needsReview'.
Comment 6 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2008-06-13 17:04:31 UTC
The XML Schema WG considered this issue briefly at its teleconference
of 13 June 2008.  We observed that the WG does not have consensus on how
to resolve the existing problems with the specification of schema composition
and that periodic efforts to address composition issues over the last
four years have uniformly met with failure as a result.  The recent
decision to define an xs:override element (bug 4767) and to deprecate
xs:redefine (this bug, comment #2) have ameliorated but not really resolved
the situation.

So we have reluctantly agreed to close this issue for now with the hope
that it can be reconsidered and resolved later.

David, since you opened this issue on behalf of the XML Schema WG, it
can be assumed that you are resigned to this disposition, if not content
with it.  But it would be convenient if you would signal that fact
explicitly by closing the issue, or signal its opposite by reopening
the issue.  Thanks.