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Bug 1933 - (re)move primitive (and derived) simple type defns from SDForSDs
Summary: (re)move primitive (and derived) simple type defns from SDForSDs
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: XML Schema
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Datatypes: XSD Part 2 (show other bugs)
Version: 1.1 only
Hardware: PC Windows XP
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Henry S. Thompson
QA Contact: XML Schema comments list
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: resolved
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2005-09-01 16:23 UTC by Henry S. Thompson
Modified: 2006-01-28 18:15 UTC (History)
0 users

See Also:


Attachments

Description Henry S. Thompson 2005-09-01 16:23:58 UTC
Proposition:  Including the simple type definitions for the primitive builtin 
datatypes in the schema document for schema documents is neither necessary nor 
desireable.

As it stands many schema validators reject the schema document at 
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema.xsd because of these definitions, and they 
aren't needed to fulfil the primary purpose of the SDForSDs, namely to 
constrain the structure of schema documents.

In 2e we attempted to patch around the ways in which the SDForSDs violated our 
own constraints on SDs, but the result is arguably imperfect, and certainly 
doesn't contribute to the simplicity of the spec.

We could just remove them altogether, or put them in a separate section of the 
REC and/or a separate schema document on the Web.

The simple type definitions for the built-in derived datatypes are also not 
necessary -- should we (re)move them also?

One note of caution -- we have published URIs of the form 
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#string and 
http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema#int.maxInclusive
and the SDForSD contains anchors with those names.  Some people might suppose 
that those two things are connected, but it's not clear to me that in fact they 
are. . .
Comment 1 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2005-09-07 23:50:21 UTC
The WG did discuss this topic earlier this year, maybe in connection
with editorial proposal EP-09 (the 'literate programming' proposal).
As far as I can remember, that discussion resulted in no clear 
direction, so I believe the correct thing to do now is to treat the
question as a new item and ask the WG to classify it.
Comment 2 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2005-09-27 09:13:25 UTC
Connected with this issue is the mismatch (in the current status quo
document) between the schema document for schemas and the tableau
at the end of Datatypes section 4.1.6.  The schema for schemas has
(pseudo-)declarations for the primitive datatypes, many of which
contain annotations. But the tableau in 4.1.6 says that the 
primitives have {annotations} with a value of the empty sequence.
Either this discrepancy is a problem and must be fixed, or it is not
a problem and the WG needs to decide that it is not a problem.
Comment 3 David Ezell 2005-11-09 22:38:03 UTC
Decided at the f2f in Toronto 2005-11.
Comment 4 Henry S. Thompson 2005-12-15 12:22:13 UTC
The Toronto draft minutes
(http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2005/11/xml-schema-ftf-minutes#id0x04998078) say:

    * structures.xsd: presented as an appendix, as now, but defines no built-ins
    * datatypes.xsd: presented as an appendix, and as an external file, as now,
      but defines no built-ins
    * XMLSchema.xsd: presented as an external file, as now, but defines no
      built-ins
    * primitives.xsd[1]: presented in an appendix and as a separate doucment in
      XSD syntax and described as not a schema document, e.g. this document is
      in XSD syntax but violates some constraints; [it's thus not usable with
      conforming processors, but may be useful to other processors so it's
      provided in this syntax for their convenience.]
    * datatypes.xsd[2]: presented in an appendix and as a separate doucment in
      XSD syntax and described as not a schema document, e.g. this document is
      in XSD syntax but violates some constraints; [it's thus not usable with
      conforming processors, but may be useful to other processors so it's
      provided in this syntax for their convenience]. We will review this
      document after the story on composition is clear.

[1] I think this should be primitives.nxsd
[2] I think this should be derived.nxsd

Noting that these are working names, likely to be replaced before publication

Comment 5 Henry S. Thompson 2005-12-16 13:28:45 UTC
Candidate change in dg sfs-1933, sent to WG for review 2005-12-16:
http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2004/06/xmlschema-2/datatypes.b1933.20051216.html
Comment 6 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2006-01-15 00:28:52 UTC
The Working Group discussed this issue on its telcons of 6 and 13
January; at the latter it sent the issue back to the editors with
instructions to revise the proposal so as to remove the xsd:annotation
elements from the XML representations of the built-in datatypes,
to accord with the WG's preference to have the {annotations} property
of those types be absent (or, alternatively, the empty sequence).

Accordingly, I'm changing the status of this item from needsReview
back to needsDrafting.
Comment 7 C. M. Sperberg-McQueen 2006-01-28 18:15:00 UTC
On 20 January 2006 the Working Group considered, amended, and
adopted a proposal to move the XML source declarations for
the built-in datatypes out of the schema for schema
documents and into separate parts of the back matter.

The changes were integrated into the status quo documents
on 20 January 2006.