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the borders implementation for tables is a total mess. I really need border="0" or border="1" to be put back into HTML5 and XHTML5 because without it I can't make a table borders look good. some parts are 2px width, some parts are 1px width - big mess, and ugly looking on every browser. In fact I suppose that should be a separate bug report... additionally, using css alone to get the table to look reasonably decent (and unfortunately still not perfect 1px borders) takes a herculean effort no mortal man can achieve (well, it's anything but intuitive). please - bring back "border="n". thanks. I realize this clashes with css and it's a case of handling priorities. I am just a web designer who is getting lost in the shuffle and it seems like the rug is being yanked out from under me in a few critical areas.
What's wrong with: table { border-collapse:collapse; } th,td { border:1px solid #000; } ...?
border-collapse? I didn't know what that meant when I first saw it. my book didn't tell me. the problem is, this always intuitive, and finding out how to do this in the reverse direction when you know what you want to do on the web isn't easy. I didn't check recent documentation on w3c css tables (never thought of searching for those keywords before, for 20 years). for one thing, I don't know how to do all that shorthand stuff because I just don't use it often enough to justify it (or it's just not readable and I want readable CSS I can maintain 6 months later). I suppose you can close this bug, unless you want to take care of some of this stuff below: let's compare using joe average's code using 3 methods: http://Jesusnjim.com/common/table-plain.html http://Jesusnjim.com/common/table-styled.html http://Jesusnjim.com/common/table-classed.html I thought that using border="n" saved space, and it does, by 54-307 characters. if you are not doing captions, it saves space by 110-149 characters. I did have problems aligning the caption sides (which is supposed to be part of a table!) with the rows. caption in ff13 was larger than the rows. I assumed both would have the same width and that one would realign the other. also, for some reason, css that applies to table doesn't apply to the caption. maybe there is some reason for this? browser bugs? 3 browsers (ie8, ff13, opera12) incorrectly render the following page (just picking one, all 3 pages on these 3 browsers were equally bad): http://Jesusnjim.com/common/table-classed.html so if you have a browser test kit, you can add one of these pages to it. thanks...
I now realize this is really 2 separate issues: - border="n" not being easy to render or not being rendered correctly in css in all instances when caption is included. - captioned tables with large words and small data rendered wrong. so if someone wants to split the bug, this would be great. or, I can submit a different bug report. should the latter be submitted separately to browser vendors, or to here? if to browser vendors, to where? some direction appreciated. as for the first bug, I think having some sort of CSS that fixes the problem might be in order, even though CSS multiples the size of the code, I know this is the direction HTML is going. even if border="n" were to work, I think it should apply to caption as well since it's part of a table, but that's my personal opinion. I guess I like seeing boxes around the caption. maybe it's because I am used to engineering drawings.
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the Editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the Tracker Issue; or you may create a Tracker Issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html Status: Rejected Rationale: You can use CSS for all of these; reintroducing presentational markup is not currently part of the plan.