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This was was cloned from bug 10713 as part of operation convergence. Originally filed: 2010-09-24 08:48:00 +0000 Original reporter: Gez Lemon <gez.lemon@gmail.com> ======================================================================== #0 Gez Lemon 2010-09-24 08:48:12 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ It's good that the specification makes it clear at the start and throughout that the drag and drop mechanism should be device independent, but it would be helpful if there was guidance for keyboard-only implementation. See the proposal sent to the HTML Accessibility Working Group for a drag and drop keyboard accessible workflow: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Sep/0444.html ======================================================================== #1 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-09-28 06:42:32 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'm not sure which part of that e-mail I'm supposed to be looking at. Is this requesting just a paragraph similar to the one starting "On a visual medium with a pointing device..."? But for some other medium and other input device? Which ones exactly? Audio medium with a keyboard input device? What should it say? ======================================================================== #2 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-09-30 08:10:41 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Status: Did Not Understand Request Change Description: no spec change Rationale: see comment 1. ======================================================================== #3 Everett Zufelt 2010-09-30 09:35:50 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (In reply to comment #1) > I'm not sure which part of that e-mail I'm supposed to be looking at. > > Is this requesting just a paragraph similar to the one starting "On a visual > medium with a pointing device..."? But for some other medium and other input > device? Which ones exactly? Audio medium with a keyboard input device? What > should it say? I can write some text if it will be given serious consideration for inclusion. ======================================================================== #4 Everett Zufelt 2010-09-30 16:08:03 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reopenning bug. ======================================================================== #5 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2010-09-30 18:52:46 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No need to provide actual text, just an idea of what it should say. I'm just not clear on what the bug is requesting. If you could answer the specific questions in comment 1, that would be sufficient, I think. ======================================================================== #6 Michael Cooper 2011-02-03 16:29:43 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Assign to Gez to provide information or determine the issue is moot and close the bug http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-html-a11y-minutes.html#item01 ======================================================================== #7 Everett Zufelt 2011-12-15 00:15:28 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "On a visual medium with a pointing device, a drag operation could be the default action of a mousedown event that is followed by a series of mousemove events, and the drop could be triggered by the mouse being released. When using an input modality other than a pointing device, users would probably have to explicitly indicate their intention to perform a drag-and-drop operation, stating what they wish to drag and where they wish to drop it, respectively." Please provide analogous sections to the "visual medium with a pointing device" for at least "visual medium with a keyboard", "non-visual medium with a keyboard", and "visual medium with a touch input device". Note that this is non-normative, but the clarification drives home the fact that the different modalities of access directly influence the drag and drop operation. Other sections of the API that have non-normative text that could use amendment" "The immediate user selection changes as the user selects different elements (either by pointing at them with a pointing device, or by selecting them in some other way)." "Update the drag feedback (e.g. the mouse cursor) to match the current drag operation, as follows:" "Otherwise, if the user ended the drag-and-drop operation (e.g. by releasing the mouse button in a mouse-driven drag-and-drop interface), or if the drag event was canceled, then this will be the last iteration. Run the following steps, then stop the drag-and-drop operation:" "If the current drag operation is "none" (no drag operation), or, if the user ended the drag-and-drop operation by canceling it (e.g. by hitting the Escape key), or if the current target element is null, then the drag operation failed. Run these substeps:" Further examples should be provided, analogous to the categories I suggested in 1 above. To clarify, all non-normative examples should be provided for at least the four modalities described. ======================================================================== #8 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2012-02-01 00:05:11 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ We're definitely not listing four modalities each time, that's just going to make the text impenetrable. Could you briefly elaborate on roughly what you would like the spec to say for these three cases in the introduction?: - "visual medium with a keyboard" - "non-visual medium with a keyboard" - "visual medium with a touch input device" ======================================================================== #9 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2012-02-01 00:05:56 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Reassigning to me since otherwise this will drop off my radar. ========================================================================
Ian said: Could you briefly elaborate on roughly what you would like the spec to say for these three cases in the introduction?: - "visual medium with a keyboard" - "non-visual medium with a keyboard" - "visual medium with a touch input device" Does it even have to go down this route? Would mentioning keyboard or touch input devices be sufficient? These are input devices, visual modalities are related output really no? I actually agree that there is no real need here to discuss 'visual/non-visual mediums'. However, there is a need for the spec to cover modalities based on more binary or serial input (for want of a better term) such as keyboard and touch access. If the spec discussed keyboard and touch access, and in the instance of the later how this was dealt with was largely up to the user agent - then to my mind this would be sufficient.
Whatever cases the spec discusses, the question is what should the spec _say_. I don't understand what is being requested here. What information does the spec need to convey that it does not already convey?