This is an archived snapshot of W3C's public bugzilla bug tracker, decommissioned in April 2019. Please see the home page for more details.

Bug 14111 - XHTML5 without DTD _and_ without Schema? This is crazy! This is an utterly unacceptable break with W3C traditions! I was so glad that I could use Schema validation on XHTML 1.1 to make sure that neither I nor one of the tools does something wrong, and you
Summary: XHTML5 without DTD _and_ without Schema? This is crazy! This is an utterly un...
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: HTML5 spec (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: Other other
: P3 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Ian 'Hixie' Hickson
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/...
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2011-09-12 07:33 UTC by contributor
Modified: 2011-09-12 23:41 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:

Attachments

Description contributor 2011-09-12 07:33:58 UTC 
Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/Overview.html
Multipage: http://www.whatwg.org/C#top
Complete: http://www.whatwg.org/c#top

Comment:
XHTML5 without DTD _and_ without Schema? This is crazy! This is an utterly
unacceptable break with W3C traditions! I was so glad that I could use Schema
validation on XHTML 1.1 to make sure that neither I nor one of the tools does
something wrong, and you're removing this important interoperability feature
from the community? I know, neither DTD nor Schema can check everything, but
at least they can check something, quite a lot in fact!
As long as there is no DTD or Schema, and as long as there is support for this
non-XML-conformant markup mess, HTML5 is throwing us back in the stone-age of
the web. I predict that in 3 years from now, we're back in the mid 90ies where
by looking at one browser you couldn't tell how it looks in another. Without
DTD / Schema, validators will be used much less frequently. XML based content
management systems will have to run without validator. And without validation,
even the best Acid test will say absolutely nothing because it is a good case
test and not a bad case (spec violation) test.

Posted from: 85.183.80.39
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/535.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/13.0.782.220 Safari/535.1
Comment 1 Tab Atkins Jr. 2011-09-12 08:58:32 UTC 
Current validators, such as the one at html5.validator.nu or the HTML5 validator on w3.org, successfully and correctly validate HTML5 without needing a DTD or Schema.  (Actually, from what I understand, validator.nu uses a Schematron schema augmented with custom Java for testing the parts that Schematron can't express.)

If you feel that strongly about your prediction, though, I'm willing to wager against it.
Comment 2 Henri Sivonen 2011-09-12 23:41:50 UTC 
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are
satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If
you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please
reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML
Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest
title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue
yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Rejected
Change Description: no spec change
Rationale: Validator.nu is proof by implementation that the premise of the bug report (necessity of DTDs or XSD) is incorrect.