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Bug 14073 - Define role of @title in <a title="Expansion"><abbr>abbrevitation</abbr></a>
Summary: Define role of @title in <a title="Expansion"><abbr>abbrevitation</abbr></a>
Status: RESOLVED NEEDSINFO
Alias: None
Product: HTML WG
Classification: Unclassified
Component: HTML5 spec (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: PC All
: P3 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: contributor
QA Contact: HTML WG Bugzilla archive list
URL: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/text-lev...
Whiteboard:
Keywords: a11y
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2011-09-08 03:23 UTC by Leif Halvard Silli
Modified: 2011-12-09 23:33 UTC (History)
6 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description Leif Halvard Silli 2011-09-08 03:23:57 UTC
REQUEST: 
    Make the spec say describe how the general nearest anchestor rule applies to <abbr> when its @title attribute has been omitted. Also, describe how the genarl rule about the meaning of an emtpy @title attribute applies to the <abbr> element.

CURRENT SITUATION: 
   The general @title rule is that omission of @title  "implies that the title attribute of the nearest ancestor HTML element with a title attribute set is also relevant to this element". <http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/elements#the-title-attribute>
   Thus logically, @title from the nearest anchestor should be used as expansion whenever <abbr> does not have a @title of its own. And unless the general rule is applied, the <abbr> would end up being able to have two kinds of advisory text: It would count as 1) "expansion" in case of <abbr title=foo> but as 2)  "normal" advisory text that doesn't need to be an expansion. in case of <a title="Expansion"><abbr>x</abbr></a>. 
    This double meaning of @title for the <abbr> element, does not make sense - the relevant @title should count as expansion regardless of whether it comes from <abbr> itself or from the nearest anchestor with a @title attribute.

  HTML5 spec text about abbr@title: 
      ]] Also, the title attribute has special semantics on this element.   snip    if specified, must contain an expansion of the abbreviation, and nothing else. [[

   That definiton with its "special semantics" borders on saying that the general rule does not apply. However, if the general rule does not apply, then one must also establish the the omission of @title means something else for <abbr> compared to other elements: Does it, in the ABBR case, mean the same as the title="<TheEmptyString>" - namely that anchestor title does not apply to the current eleent? How would such a special casing be possible? BTW, I think it is not ideal to say that @title has special semantics, rather it is <abbr> which attribute special meaning to @title. The difference might seem like needless hair splitting. However, it goes better together with the general "title inheritance rule" to put it that way. (I have myself been stating that @title has special semantics on <abbr> - I have now modified my perception.)

   Not that the application of the general rule means that e.g. <parent title="expansion"> could count as expansion for more than a single <abbr> child element. E.g. if the parent contains two adjacent <abbr> elements, then <parent title="foo"> could be used as expansion for both. I think this a feature and not a bug. E.g. consider this:

    <span lang="en" title="Acquired immune deficiency syndrome">
         <abbr>AIDS</abbr> or <abbr lang="fr">SIDA</abbr>
    </span>

   The specification of <abbr> also fails to define whether the general interpretation of the empty string rule applies to <abbr>. The general rule: "the emtpy string indicates that the element has no advisory information". It seems to me that authors should have to do the same thing for abbr as for other elements {namely setting @title to the empty string} if they do not want the parent@title to apply to the current abbr element.

A USE CASE: 
    The spec currently includes the following example 

      <p>The <a href="#whatwg"><abbr title="Web Hypertext Application 
      Technology Working Group">WHATWG</abbr></a> community does
      not have much representation from Asia.</p>

   which could usefully be rewritten like this:

      <p>The <a href="#whatwg" title="Web Hypertext Application 
      Technology Working Group" ><abbr>WHATWG</abbr></a>
      community does not have much representation from Asia.</p>

   Advantages of applying the pattern  of the above rewrite: 

    * Authors do frequently place useful text inside a@title
    * Unlike other elements, AT has a good history of reading a@title
    * Links are quite often abbreviations
Comment 1 Ian 'Hixie' Hickson 2011-12-09 23:33:27 UTC
EDITOR'S RESPONSE: This is an Editor's Response to your comment. If you are satisfied with this response, please change the state of this bug to CLOSED. If you have additional information and would like the editor to reconsider, please reopen this bug. If you would like to escalate the issue to the full HTML Working Group, please add the TrackerRequest keyword to this bug, and suggest title and text for the tracker issue; or you may create a tracker issue yourself, if you are able to do so. For more details, see this document:
   http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

Status: Did Not Understand Request
Change Description: no spec change
Rationale: I do not understand the problem described.