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Bug 10525 - Please try to improve Bugzilla's accessibility/usability problems before Last Call
Summary: Please try to improve Bugzilla's accessibility/usability problems before Last...
Status: REOPENED
Alias: None
Product: Bugzilla
Classification: Unclassified
Component: accessibility (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: PC All
: P2 normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Michael[tm] Smith
QA Contact: Michael[tm] Smith
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: a11y
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2010-09-01 14:06 UTC by Laura Carlson
Modified: 2011-06-21 13:10 UTC (History)
15 users (show)

See Also:


Attachments

Description Laura Carlson 2010-09-01 14:06:15 UTC
Bugzilla is a major component in the HTML Decision Process, which states "Issues should be filed as bugs in W3C Bugzilla to be formally considered." 

Accessibility/usability problems have been identified.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0146.html

I know Paul said that he would watch the comment list and assist people if they have trouble, which is helpful. But it would be great if people could file bugs directly without encountering major accessibility/usability problems.

Thanks.

References:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0152.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0164.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0421.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0424.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0428.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0435.html
Comment 1 Martin Kliehm 2010-09-03 10:48:25 UTC
Actually this isn't a bug that's specific for HTML5, it affects the entire W3C bug tracking system.

Max Kanat-Alexander who works on Bugzilla in Mountain View sent me a tweet that accessibility should be improved with version 3.6 [1] The installed version at the W3C is 3.2.6.

I'd suggest updating to a current version and switching to UTF-8 (checking data integrity might be necessary afterwards).

I'll try to find out if and how the templates could be adapted then.

In the meantime Paul Cotton raised the issue 2010-09-01 with the W3C systems team where it will be taken care of. Therefore I'd suggest to close the bug here.

Cheers,
  Martin

[1] http://twitter.com/mkanat/status/22852456145
Comment 2 Laura Carlson 2010-09-03 13:14:00 UTC
(In reply to comment #1)
> Actually this isn't a bug that's specific for HTML5, it affects the entire W3C
> bug tracking system.
> 
> Max Kanat-Alexander who works on Bugzilla in Mountain View sent me a tweet that
> accessibility should be improved with version 3.6 [1] The installed version at
> the W3C is 3.2.6.
> 
> I'd suggest updating to a current version and switching to UTF-8 (checking data
> integrity might be necessary afterwards).
> 
> I'll try to find out if and how the templates could be adapted then.
> 
> In the meantime Paul Cotton raised the issue 2010-09-01 with the W3C systems
> team where it will be taken care of. Therefore I'd suggest to close the bug
> here.
> 
> Cheers,
>   Martin


Hi Martin, 

Many thanks to Paul for raising the problem with the W3C systems team.

Yes, Bugzilla accessibility/usability problems affects the entire W3C bug tracking system.

However, it is specific to HTML5 because HTML5 is relying on Bugzilla as a major component in its decision process. I expect many people will be trying to use Bugzilla to raise bugs on HTML5 and encounter the same problems that Gregory encounterd.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0146.html

It may discourage HTML5 input and shut some people out of the process.

Other W3C groups seem to have made modifications to Bugzilla, for instance WCAG: 
http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/
http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/issuereports/

They also seem to use a different comment form:
http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/comments/onlineform

It might be helpful to get some advice from the WCAG folks.
Comment 3 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-04 02:16:18 UTC
PROBLEM: every time a new comment is logged, a "Reply" link is generated
which allows threading of comments -- such repeated link text, however, 
is not programmatically bound to the comment number to which it refers,
with the result that there are numerous links named "Reply" whose 
function is identical (create a reply to the comment) but which cannot
be differentiated from one another nor easily associated with a specific
comment

SUGGESTION: explicitly include the number of the comment in the Reply 
link (e.g. "Reply to Comment #16" so as to avoid having multiple links
with identical hyperlink text)

(although one could use WCAG 2.0 Technique C7 to use a CSS overlay to hide the comment number portion of the Reply hyperlink from visual renderings, i think there is utility for ALL users if each "Reply" link explicitly refers to the comment to which one is using the link to reply)
Comment 4 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-04 02:25:39 UTC
PROBLEM: collapse/expand link undecipherable if one cannot read document 
source

currently, one can expand or collapse individual comments using a hyperlink whose hyperlink text is "(-)" or "(+)", which constitues ASCII art, which must be either

1. glossed using ABBR

<ABBR title="Collapse">(-)</ABBR></a>
<ABBR title="Expand">(+)</ABBR>


2. use the actual terms "expand" and "collapse" as the hyperlink text


3. use an expand/collapse graphic with proper alt text

<img src="collapse.png" alt="collapse">
<img src="expand.png" alt="expand">


RECOMMENDATION: of the 3 approaches outlined above, i strongly recommend #2 (use the actual terms "expand" and "collapse") because one cannot count on a user of assistive technology to have abbreviations set to auto-expand, although it is a valid solution to the problem of indecipherable hyperlink text
Comment 5 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-04 02:31:25 UTC
PROBLEM: the term "comment" should be included in the link to the individual comment number

currently, comments appear as hyperlinks with the hyperlink text "#x" (where "x" is the actual number)

PRECEDENT: the auto-generated in reply to "comment #x" includes the word "comment" along with the actual number;
Comment 6 Martin Kliehm 2010-09-08 15:40:42 UTC
Further information from the Bugzilla engineers:

"We're adding more ARIA as we go. There are still a lot of tables. The templates are Template Toolkit, they can be edited." [1]

So if the W3C finds the resources, the templates could be improved. Under the Mozilla Public License (MPL) the W3C could even make the enhanced template code available to the Bugzilla project, thus further impacting the accessibility of the tool beyond the internal use at the W3C.

[1] http://twitter.com/mkanat/status/22924980935
Comment 7 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-08 15:52:18 UTC
(In reply to comment #6)

aloha, martin!  thanks for following up on this with those working on bugzilla -- i would be more than willing to work on a team that (a) increases the accessibility of bugzilla, (b) increases the usability of bugzilla, and (c) is ported "upstream" to "vanilla bugzilla" so that anyone using bugzilla out of the box can be assured that there are accessibility and usability features built into bugzilla

i have used this bug to document additional problems and proffer suggestions which supplement the issues that i documented in the initial bugzilla accessibility post to public-html-a11y@w3.org and i have a few others...

what course would you advise me to take?  i think we need some people to work on the issues identified so far in conjunction with the W3C systeam, and i am consequently volunteering -- has mkanat provided a list of the accessibility improvements slated for the next release or do you know if such a document exists?  it would be helpful to ascertain what the bugzilla developers have already done and already committed-to so that work on the bugzilla interface can be as focused as possible, gregory.
Comment 8 Martin Kliehm 2010-09-08 16:07:01 UTC
@Gregory, I believe it would be best to connect you with Max then. I'll contact him on twitter and point him to your initial assessment and this bug.
Comment 9 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-08 18:50:48 UTC
the email produced by bugzilla contains a visually-oriented summary
of the bug's status, which is difficult to parse using speech output 
or any other non-visual medium; for examnple: 

          What    |Old Value                   |New Value
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
            Status|RESOLVED                    |REOPENED
        Resolution|WONTFIX                     | 

a more useable and accessible way to display this information would be
through the use of a bulleted lists, as follows:

Status:    
   * Old Value: RESOLVED
   * New Value: REOPENED
Resolution: 
   * Old Value: WONTFIX
   * New Value (none)
Comment 10 Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis 2010-09-08 19:58:39 UTC
If the changes are going to be folded into Bugzilla, I'm also happy to pitch in with template repair measures, if another hand is needed.
Comment 11 Ted Guild 2010-09-27 18:53:56 UTC
Bugzilla instance at W3C now running 3.6.2, please review accessibility concerns raised earlier.
Comment 12 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-28 00:30:08 UTC
(In reply to comment #11)
> Bugzilla instance at W3C now running 3.6.2, please review accessibility
> concerns raised earlier.

adding michael cooper, w3c staff contact for PFWG and WCAG -- notifications
aren't going to the public-html-a11y@w3.org list -- i think this is due to
the change in the from: field, which is now bugzilla-daemon@jessica.w3.org 
and not bugzilla@jessica.w3.org as previous
Comment 13 Gregory J. Rosmaita 2010-09-28 00:39:40 UTC
(In reply to comment #11)
> Bugzilla instance at W3C now running 3.6.2, please review accessibility
> concerns raised earlier.

aloha, ted!  thank you very much!

i will comment further and coordinate bug submission on the bugzilla.org's 
bugzilla as time permits; NOTE: the keyword for accessibility at bugzilla.org is "access" 

2 problems to report with the "Help" link:

1. the "help" link that points to:

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/docs/en/html/query.html#lists

leads to a 404 error

also (in something that needs to be addressed at the bugzilla.org level, 
perhaps, unless you are comfortable editing the templates, is to remove
the

target="_blank"

from the "Help" link, as that forces open a new tab or browser instance,
which can severely disorient a user -- if you can't do anything about this
right now, i will log it as a bug on bugzilla.org's bugzilla and add it to 
the list of the accessibility issues for the w3c team of volunteers to address
Comment 14 Ted Guild 2010-09-28 02:52:49 UTC
docs lined up better

I removed from our copy of the templates various occurrences of target="_blank", it would be better if you can persuade those to be removed upstream.
Comment 15 Paul Cotton 2010-12-14 19:29:21 UTC
The HTML WG Chairs are attempting to determine if this bug can be closed since it is anchored on the HTML WG Decision Policy.

Have the problems in this bug been fixed by installed a more recent version of Bugzilla?  See comment #11:
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10525#c11 

/paulc
Comment 16 Martin Kliehm 2011-02-22 16:28:20 UTC
The bug-triage sub-team doesn't think this should be task force priority because it's an external tool, but we encourage individuals to look into the accessibility of the tool and make recommendations or improvements.
Comment 17 Martin Kliehm 2011-02-22 16:32:59 UTC
By the way, Bugzilla version 4 was released a couple of days ago, so a comparison between the currently installed version and the latest version would make sense.
Comment 18 Maciej Stachowiak 2011-05-16 08:13:35 UTC
It is regrettable that bugzilla is lacking in some aspects. However, resolving these issues seems out of scope for the decision policy document.

There is no component for tools in the W3C bugzilla. I recommend reporting these issues to the W3C Team and/or upstream to the bugzilla maintainers:

http://www.bugzilla.org/developers/reporting_bugs.html
Comment 19 Max Kanat-Alexander 2011-05-21 00:42:10 UTC
Bugzilla is not currently compliant to the WAI WCAG as far as I am aware. Whether or not it is Section 508 compliant, I do not know.

However, one solution here could be to set up Bugzilla's email_in interface. Then users could at least provide their feedback on bugs (and file bugs) via email. As long as you can accept the possibility of impersonation, and you have no confidential bugs, using email_in.pl should be fine.
Comment 20 Max Kanat-Alexander 2011-05-21 00:45:04 UTC
By the way, the IBM Linux Technology Center is also currently contributing WAI WCAG fixes to Bugzilla upstream, and we expect some (if not all) of them to land in 4.2. Some of the major interfaces have already been fixed on trunk.
Comment 21 Laura Carlson 2011-05-21 06:16:47 UTC
Hi Max,

You wrote in Comment 20: 

> By the way, the IBM Linux Technology Center is also currently contributing WAI
> WCAG fixes to Bugzilla upstream, and we expect some (if not all) of them to
> land in 4.2. Some of the major interfaces have already been fixed on trunk.

Would you recommend installing the latest Bugzilla release then?
Comment 22 Laura Carlson 2011-05-21 06:23:57 UTC
(comment #9)

> the email produced by bugzilla contains a visually-oriented summary
> of the bug's status, which is difficult to parse using speech output 
> or any other non-visual medium

Reference:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011May/0492.html
Comment 23 Max Kanat-Alexander 2011-05-21 08:36:42 UTC
(In reply to comment #21)
> Would you recommend installing the latest Bugzilla release then?

  Well, I would certainly recommend that as a general measure. :-) But 4.2 is the *next* release, not the current one.

(In reply to comment #22)
> > the email produced by bugzilla contains a visually-oriented summary
> > of the bug's status, which is difficult to parse using speech output 
> > or any other non-visual medium

  True. Bugzilla 4.2 will have HTML emails that might be easier for a screen-reader to handle. However, my suggestion was for inbound email, so people could at least send in comments without having to use the web interface.
Comment 24 Leif Halvard Silli 2011-05-21 10:09:42 UTC
(In reply to comment #23)
> (In reply to comment #21)
    .....

> However, my suggestion was for inbound email, so
> people could at least send in comments without having to use the web interface.

You failed to comment Laura's reference to my e-mail, where I cited from the Bugzilla features description:

''' All of Bugzilla's User Interface and every email that Bugzilla 
sends are generated from "templates", files that contain mostly just 
HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Depending on how far you want to customize 
your installation, you don't have to know Perl to customize Bugzilla, 
you just have to edit the templates! '''

http://www.bugzilla.org/features/#extensions

So, given that a mayor problem is the visual orientation of the plain text messages that Bugzilla sends out, do you think that it - by editing the templates - it would be possible to make Bugzilla send out more accessible plain text e-mail reports? 

And, btw, with regard to the upcoming support for HTML e-mail, is it perhaps possible, even now, to send out HTML e-mail, if only one is willing to struggle with the templates?
Comment 25 Laura Carlson 2011-05-23 11:28:40 UTC
Related thread on public-html:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/thread.html#msg268
Comment 26 Laura Carlson 2011-05-24 17:54:33 UTC
Related email:

"Hi Maciej,

> The following proposed revision of the Decision Policy resolves nearly all
> outstanding bugs, including such frequent requests as defining the process
> for reopening an issue, and defining the process to be followed for the LC
> Review period. Comments welcome:
>
> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy-v2.html

Systems used in the decision policy should be accessible for use by
persons with disabilities.

Currently the decision policy and Last Call may lock out people who
want to provide the HTML Working Group feedback because the HTML
Chairs choose to use Bugzilla which currently has accessibility and
usability problems.

It seems that the HTML Chairs as well as the W3C are responsible and
would be liable for this choice. Problems were identified to the
Chairs in the September 1, 2010 Bug 10525 [1] which you marked INVALID
May 16, 2011."

Source: 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0313.html
Comment 27 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-05-25 02:59:05 UTC
I'm taking ownership on this bug.
Comment 28 Sam Ruby 2011-05-25 11:42:40 UTC
Related: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/203
Comment 29 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-05-30 05:11:18 UTC
Can somebody confirm that the UI of the bugzilla instance at http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/ does in fact have changes that fix the problems that Gregory has cited?

Gregory, have you used that instance yourself?
Comment 30 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-05-30 06:33:31 UTC
Would it help to have the bugzilla e-mail interface enabled in the W3C bugzilla instance?

What I mean is this:

  http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/api/email_in.html

And I mean more for the case of modifying existing bugs rather than the case of creating new bugs (because we have the comments list already as an alternative for that).

Specifically, Gregory, would you find the e-mail interface useful as an alternative, and/or do you think others would?

If it seems like it would be useful, I can discuss it with the W3C systems team. But if not, I won't pursue it any further.
Comment 31 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-05-30 06:38:59 UTC
Note for the record here that I've set up a way to help ensure that bugs are created for any new comments posted to the public-html-comments list:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0382.html

So, we can let the wider community outside the group know that have the choice of using the comments list for filing last-call comments, as an alternative to raising bugs in bugzilla directly, and they can be ensured that their comments will get recorded and tracked and considered just as they would be if entered directly in bugzilla.

I do of course still plan on helping to get the a11y problems in the current UI fixed, but regardless, for the bug-creation case, posting to the comments list will continue to be a good alternative.
Comment 32 Michael[tm] Smith 2011-06-20 10:06:52 UTC
Update: In the interest of taking some baby steps on fixes, I hacked some on the bugzilla code today to improve the readability/accessibility of the e-mail notifications that bugzilla sends out.

The result is that in place of the ascii-table-layout formatting that bugzilla currently uses, we'd get something like the following instead:

[[
From: bugzilla-daemon@sideshowbarker.net                                                                                                                    
To: mike@w3.org                                                                                                                                             
Subject: [Bug 1] checking e-mail                                                                                                                            
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:00:37 +0900                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                            
http://sideshowbarker.net/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                            
sideshowbarker+foo@gmail.com changed:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                                            
Priority                                                                                                                                                    
  Old: Normal                                                                                                                                               
  New: High                                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                                            
Status                                                                                                                                                      
  Old: ASSIGNED                                                                                                                                             
  New: RESOLVED                                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                                            
Resolution                                                                                                                                                  
  Old:                                                                                                                                                      
  New: WONTFIX                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                            
Severity                                                                                                                                                    
  Old: critical                                                                                                                                             
  New: blocker                                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                                            
--- Comment #5 from sideshowbarker+foo@gmail.com 2011-06-20 16:00:37 JST ---                                                                                
this is a comment
]]

Comments welcome on whether that's an improvement or not.

I also raised a related bug upstream:

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665419
Comment 33 Laura Carlson 2011-06-21 13:10:53 UTC
(In reply to comment #32)
> Update: In the interest of taking some baby steps on fixes, I hacked some on
> the bugzilla code today to improve the readability/accessibility of the e-mail
> notifications that bugzilla sends out.
> 
> The result is that in place of the ascii-table-layout formatting that bugzilla
> currently uses, we'd get something like the following instead:

Yes. replacing the ascii-table-layout with what you proposed would be an improvement.

Many thanks for your work on this, Mike.