Meeting minutes
js: we´re only getting 7 weeks of the planned 8
thought we´d skip doing a report, but they still want them
we´ll present Friday at Silver meeting
Finalize points that Describing Equity in WCAG3 - not a definition
<Cyborg> for some reason i can't find the agenda...
<Cyborg> can someone please resend? thanks
js: notes, that´s text-dense and needs shortening
don´t want to edit peoples´ work w/o permission
start with equity vs equal
then go into outcome, state, process
look at equity from each of those perspectives
kept ¨Usability for a site at a given conformance level is approximately equivalent across disability groups¨
state = point in time
result = outcome
how I tried to group those
I took the definition proposals into one of those three buckets
then went into known challenges and questions
<JenS> From in the Google doc: State: the particular condition that someone or something is in at a specific time. Outcome: the way a thing turns out; a consequence. From Oxford Languages: https://
janina: can we combine the two?
doing so will help avoid confusion of terms
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to discuss outcomes in equity vs. outcomes and methods
(state and outcome), as differentiated from process
cs: I added a number of comments to the google doc
<scribe got lost about what´s where>
cs: added reference to design justice principles
define inequity as problem before defining equity as solution
for process, can it be part of conformance model?
js: put under recommendations
the first 2 not sure if we have time
cs: these aren´t new points
and we need to demonstrate the harms of inequity when people ask why we want to do it
js: it´s time consuming to develop use cases
if someone can work on it, great
cs: meant as a framing
MichaelC: Don't disagree that saying more about inequity is useful, but for now see it as implicit--can fit into later work
MC: I don't object to adding a bullet point on needing to understand inequity, but I don't think we have time in this sprint
michalre combining outcome and state; possibly
MichaelC: wcag3 outcome statement would be different; but guideline by guideline, yes, very similar
MC: Possibly Outcome and State and be combined. Outcome as a noun is relatively equivalent to state
MichaelC: re verbosity, important to cover content digestibly, maybe shorter bullet points with links into GD
MC: the content is what we want to cover. Suggest we boil it down to bullet points and link to the document
MichaelC: written should be enough for presentation; but we can make references
jen: don´t think outcome and state mix
should look at orgs using equity-centered processes
Jen, aren't you arguing against something no one proposed?
state is a condition, outcome is a consequence
we do need to align the lingo
ok for me to do a readability pass on the slides?
js: google has some automatic features
jen: they don´t do enough
<details>
Can we please not digress?
jen: I can´t read this at the moment
want to make it easy for the group to read, provide ahead of time
js: I will check display after the content matures
you can take a pass at that point
so, I changed slide title to Equity-centered processes
objections to editing text, if original linked?
lc: that will help
jen: so the slide content is from the google docs?
js: yes
cs: it´s not clear that we´re discussing 2 things
how equity is developed in AG
and how it is achieved via guidelines
as well as relation on conformance model
because we have to look at potential inequities in conformance model from many directions
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say suggesting
mc: suggest using suggesting mode in google docs to highlight your comments
we can review and accept for a new round each weeks
jen: are slides readable to you?
janina: generally gsuite is difficult, it´s got keyboard but gotchas
jen: how will you review?
janina: I will review with Jeanne
jen: I´m really struggling to understand the slides
<Cyborg> +1 to Jennifer being able to do the work to make this understandable
want to make sure people seeing the intro receive a streamlined, impactful message
js: I did re-arrange to give structure
janina: we did think we had a presentation tomorrow, so it was a hasty gathering
js: we´ll move some content back to the background doc, which will help with review
mc: remember that content development has stages from rough to final
we have walkthrough of the rough version
+1 to using "result"
and the nearly final version will be ready for additional review
<JenS> Please note, my concerns are less about the development of content and more about being able to understand what content is presented — due much to the current presentation of the proposed content.
js: what about combine result and state?
mc: if we don´t have consensus to combine, best to leave uncombined at this early stage
cs: equity-based process holds a journey towards an outcome; along that journey there are states
<JenS> Where something is "proposed" might we label it as such? i.e., "Equity as a state" becomes "Proposed: Equity as a state" — this way we come to understand what we're talking about.
<JenS> +1 to Cyborg
js: think people would understand that
cs: that would address process of developing guidelines
<JenS> =1 to Cyborg that along the journey towards equity there are states
if our goal is equity for end users, there is a different process
within equity-based process we consider the meta-process
so want to separate a) how do we achieve equity for end users in WCAG 3 b) how do we engage in equity-based process in the development of WCAG 3
js: that sounds like great content for the final report, which we´re not ready for yet
jen: Please note, my concerns are less about the development of content and more about being able to understand what content is presented — due much to the current presentation of the proposed content.
Where something is "proposed" might we label it as such? i.e., "Equity as a state" becomes "Proposed: Equity as a state" — this way we come to understand what we're talking about.
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to discuss Cyborg's two definitions of equity process
janina: capturing that we want to support equity in the impact of a W3C specification, and that that specification itself embody process designed to continue to improve equity as a result of applying equity to its process
we need to capture how we do that, but not ¨boil the ocean¨
maturity model relates to this
js: editing slide 3 for that point
lc: thanks for the work and input on this difficult work
re recommendations, there are a couple in the wiki
Achieve AGWG consensus on a clear definition of equity scoped for WCAG 3.
Achieve AGWG consensus on the actions and process needed for WCAG 3 to attain equitable results for all disability groups including those who may have been previously marginalized.
could see a slide for that
<laura> https://
cs: I think equity vs inequity fits in slide 2
+1 to janina´s characterization of what I said
but some of the details not clear
one of my biggest concerns is of inequity being baked into conformance
the need for equity in the conformance model is something we need to highlight
js: should conformance have its own slide then?
MC: The slection of recommendations should be in part Conformance oriented
… the filters we have about achievability will have impact on conformance
… accessibility support of WCAG2 has an equity impact by requiring people to have a level of tech
… we aren't propose solutions, but we need to document the entire space
jen: another point we need to document is process
<Cyborg> +1 to what Jen just said