W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA WG

05 May 2022

Attendees

Present
aaronlev, CurtBellew, jamesn, MarkMcCarthy, melsumner, pkra, siri, spectranaut, StefanS
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
pkra

Meeting minutes

New Issue Triage

jnurthen: accname#158. editors, what's the plan?

melsumner: didn't we want to go evergreen?

jnurthen: yes, but would need WD

melsumner: ok then.

michaelC: I was waiting to set up auto-publishing.

melsumner: great. we've been going through backlog.
… so now is a good time.

jnurthen: how is the branching?
… WD usually comes from stable.
… so cherry pick from main to stable.
… editor's draft off main, WD off stable

melsumner: ok I'll respond on issue.

jnurthen: ok. doesn't have to stay open.

melsumner: core-aam#116 just placeholder. accname soon, too. Needed for evergreen.
… nothing for right now

michaelc: we did a wide review a few years back. I'm working out if we need to do that again.

jnurthen: html-aam 399.

scotto: waiting for firefox to agree.
… maybe agenda soon. I will track.

jnurthen: aria 1734. need discussion?

scotto: maybe. might come up today

jnurthen: aria#1732

pkra: continuation. I had merged PR, thus closed old issue. They opened a new one.

jnurthen: I'll assing myself to make comment.

jnurthen: aria#1731
… assign to valerie?

valerie: ok.

jnurthen: maybe we need a label "process"

New PR Triage

jnurthen: html-aam#402 output element

scotto: removes idea output is named by subtree. Adds label. Removes uia control type.
… question: worth adding note or normative that how to announce as part of live region.

jnurthen: yeah, sounds bogus. Who should review?

cynthia: I'll review.

mattking: how does this play into live region?

scotto: implicit to role=status. name from author.

jnurthen: not clearly specificed yet, right?

scotto: yes, that's what this is trying to fix.
… but browsers are doing this right now so calling it out seems like a good way to start fixing some of these issues.

mattking: should we not raise a bug?

jnurthen: mattking, maybe review or comment?

mattking: ok

jnurthen: html-aam#401 meter fallback.

scotto: review by implementors please.

jnurthen: ok. anyone else?

jnurthen: aria#1733
… I'll review. editorial.

jnurthen: aria#398. waiting for me.

Deep Dive planning - Dialog this week! (before this meeting)

jnurthen: deep dive planning. Any suggestions?
… next two weeks are open

melsumner: should we just do dialog until we hash it out?

scotto: but please first let's read current proposals.
… we cannot have another meeting just rehashing the conversations.

mattking: can I edit the wiki and add issues?

scotto: not sure about access. but ping me I'll edit.

jnurthen: ok, no deep dive next week

New Issue Logging process

jnurthen: valerie got improvements going with options + templates for issues
… editorial, feature, question/concern, authoring
… templates are asking for info as needed.
… not all needed but meant to be left for later.
… e.g., APG, accname, etc
… authoring redirects to authoring practices.
… comments, concerns etc?

<MarkMcCarthy> Looks awesome!

scotto: looks great!

pkra: seconded.

<siri> +1

valerie: I think it's good to have normative changes clearly tracked. Then we know if we can publish something.
… that is a good goal.

jnurthen: depending on the quality of the new issue, open a new one ;-)
… feel free to suggest more ideas like it.

mattking: for tracking downstream, do we get a label?

jnurthen: yes, we will create labels when we have a first one.

mattking: already 1.3 ?

jnurthen: maybe. but 1.4 for sure.

associationlist and related roles have tediously long names

valerie: I think this was just leftover as last meeting came to close.

jnurthen: I think I said I made them intentionally long so they don't use them.

mattking: what's the proposed solution?

jnurthen: just list for DL, listitemkey, listemvalue.
… for DT DD

mattking: can you have a list item ... [I didn't track]

jnurthen: jcraig had suggested not to forbid it.
… but current mapping is bad.
… I'll assign myself.

<chlane> lol I use them too but I didn't know about the missing mappings ugh

<melsumner> I use DLs for API docs when I need to write them, what should I use instead?

pkra: for the record I use them and would like better mappings.

mattking: there's just nothing to map them to.

Prohibit presentation / none on where it causes conflict resolution

jnurthen: old PR, originally simple. Joanie suggested adding it to associated state/property/role, also suggested prohibit use of property on role.
… not sure. I don't like the example but what does the group think?

scotto: I like it.

jnurthen: I think every single implementation would have to change. They'll have to prevent the property. Right now they ignore the role. Would change content.

mattking: right now, we're enabling accessibility when we think there's an author error -- role=none is the error, the global prop is the "real" intent.
… that's my understanding at least.

cynthia: mine as well.

melsumner: we do that trying to provide a good user experience. but if someone writes rules for testing or linting, the opposite is true.

mattking: could do it the other way around.

melsumner: yes.

scotto: we do this in html-aam.
… e.g., role=none and focusable elements
… but don't see we can state this generally
… we need to maintain that.
… we allow the property on the role but then tell them the role will be removed.

mattking: we don't have the concept in the spec.

melsumner: the role takes precedence, right?

mattking: yes except here

jnurthen: how do we resolve this?

aaron: if we were to change as Joanie suggests: I don't want to have to check the role whenever I look at a property.
… right now it's easy.
… change would be harder than it's worth.

jnurthen: so maybe just do the simple approach.
… as the original PR

<chlane> it sounds like the only approach we can take without breaking things

aaron: I'm ok as long as implementation stays

scotto: I agree.

mattking: agreed.

jnurthen: then let's just merge the PR?

scotto: I'll review

pkra: the other point about having to read the section?

jnurthen: yeah, not sure.

scotto: I'll look through it, check if anything to add.
… but he'll probably not be back to make changes.
… so we should make edits ourselves.

HTML-AAM - Change mapping for generic

scotto: discussed it with jcraig, he'll start working on it.
… then reach out for review.

1.3 triage

aria #1008

jnurthen: joanie says no.
… but tpac note says yes.

valerie: let's assign and move on?

<chlane> Ill give it a try

valerie: I'll take a look

jnurthen: aria#1048. Has PR from me. I'll assign myself.

aaron: aria-relevant is horrible and inconsistent. the idea we originally had didn't pan out.

jnurthen: aria#1084
… sounds like a good first issue.
… prose to explain concepts. editorial.

<chlane> I'll do it

<chlane> 1084

jnurthen: assign to chlane.
… aria#1101
… follow up to changes to global

scotto: comment in spec warns of this change.

mattking: trying to imagine a disabled row.

aaron: disabled tree item is ok?

mattking: my comment was assuming it's needed. but I'm not sure about that.
… 1.4

RRS agent, make minutes

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/presente+/

Maybe present: aaron, cynthia, jnurthen, mattking, michaelC, scotto, valerie