<scribe> scribe: dmontalvo
JS: Probably good to talk about the exercise last week in AGWG to see how it will affect our work
FS: Not sure about what they want to do with the results
JS: They plan to do this for each
SC. I want to make sure we agree on this, especially where test
outcomes should go
... The exercise was about categorizing SCs to move them to
WCAG3
<Francis_Storr> Protocols and Scoping Proposed Next Steps Google presentation: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1b5xHQWBzoYdKp7BfPgIUBCpz-yaDOx_kSq_HlQxcFh0/edit#slide=id.p
Wilco: We ended in a similar
direction, with us focusing only on text to speech for
now
... I think the exercise was fine
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-c96lQsQq1jgdDKo4C9GaWEj7cVoxDdCvtLPvqCOBBE/edit#
<Work on bullet point 11 in the last page>
Wilco: If we are talking blocks, tihs won't be an exception. But this example is somewhat intentional, maybe we should consider these things
JS: Somebody can copy a block of text from a German website and put it in a Spanish website without changing the lang value
FS: If we change the example to a block of text that would be a valid thing to do
JS: Shall we do this for when declaring the language is not necessary?
FS: I think we should
... Unless the word has become part of the natural language,
like in WCAG2
JS: I still think even if it is part of the natural language and it is wrong, we should address that
<jeanne> JS: An incorrect language code should always be wrong, even if they don't have to declare the code
Daniel: This seems like a wrong use of a lang value, probably we should pint that out
FS: We don't have failures (critical errors in here)
JS: Probably that would be too much
WF: I would say this is wrong, but if so that would add an extra level of complexity
JS: You would need to go through the HTML and see if the value is correct
WF: What if you need to test in a programming language where you don't have access to the underlying code?
JS: That would require a screen
reader text, would not know if this is a site bug or a screen
reader bug
... This seems like this is a cumulative problem. If there is
one, not a big issue, if there are more, then it is a
significant issue
WF: Maybe we should be oK with
that happening incidentally
... If we are looking at the outcome, it should not matter who
or what is creating the problem
... This case gets into intention. In a legal context intention
matters.
... If someone is injured because of an accident, that is
different from that happening because of a specific
intention
JS: Interesting idea, how some of the use cases would look like?
WF: It is different if human
decisions are making the outcome wrong than if machine
decisions are making it wrong
... Automating this process will throw some errors. IF these
errors are created by humans, that is a different thing
... Does that matter?
JS: This encourage innovation for language detection and it discourage human tweaking of lang values that may reveal lack of competency
WF: If you do it automatically we have a greater tolerance for errors
Daniel: How would a tester know if a passage has been produced automatically or by a human?
FS: That would create a huge burden on the tester
WF: I can understand why we want to be stricter in that case, but it is going to be much harder
FS: This would imply having a look at particular CMS and plug-in versions
WF: The conclusion is we are not failing individual words, even if they have a lang value that is wrong, because that would take a significant amount of work
JS: I would reconsider my position here, as this would preclude automation
<updates to the document based on previous discussion>
Daniel: This one is unclear for
me
... The pronunciation rules can vary depending on the speech
synthesizer
... Pronunciation rules can be defined at multiple levels:
speech synthesizer, screen reader, user ...
<changes to document based on discussions>
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