W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA WG

10 February 2022

Attendees

Present
carmacleod, harris, Irfan, Joanmarie_Diggs, Matt_King, melsumner, MichaelC, sarah_higley, scotto, siri, valerie_young
Regrets
-
Chair
JamesNurthen
Scribe
chlane

Meeting minutes

New Issue Triage

definition of navigation,

jamesn: don't think we should define it

someone else should define it like the HTML spec

melsumner: seconds that define at base level

navigate is defined in app history api and html standard, session history and navigation

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/history.html#history

jamesn: leave open, not define in aria

1.4

New PR Triage

#148m

scott: label should behave the same as labelledby

jamesn: accname issue?

html aam doesn't devolve to accname without label or labelledby

scott accname computation is not lang specific

scott: add to html aam, a note for hidden sources

aaronlev: draft PR to look at

aaronlev: for hidden stuff

changeing license, no review needed

1690 PR mel and Jamesn

1.3 blocking issues

1159, mel has it

1177 jamesn pinging in issue

1365

jamesn: up for review

Deep Dive planning

no dd next week or the 24th jamesn on vaca

Announcement - Minutes Archive

jamesn: patchy

partially a warning that these minutes will be google searchable

people will finding old minutes more often

scott: promies a shirt

to Michael

scott: Roberto has joined welcome

siri works at apple lol by irfan

we won't say hey siri

TPAC 2022 - Who might attend in person? Vancouver from 12 to 16 September 2022. Non-binding straw poll?

hybrid in person remote meeting

how many would come to vancouver

?

folk are in favor of meeting and attending

some won't be able to travel, facilitate remote participation

jamesn: webaccessibility slack channel?

wcag slack channel is free plan not archived

web-a11y.slack.com

have to be invited, thousands on it

jamesn: can send one around, we have enough people to do it

lol

scott will bring tshirts, more than a feeling

orgs should pay expenses

micheal: diversity fund, targeted to invited experts with no sponsors

contact micheal cooper

Charter Update?

new charter, recently joined have to rejoin

we are kicked off, sign up again, once every 2 or 3 years, new patent policy

march 10th is the deadline

AC rep should do it

AC rep has to rejoin for you

they have to agree to new patent policy

joanne: expedite recommendation status?

MichaelC: updated CR

recommendation snapshot every 2 years

move aams to that status

do snapshot when we have everything that supports base version

jamesn: more people doing implementation and testing

we have joannie and valerie

Handling Author Errors: form & region roles

scotto: Sarahs point in review,

regions not announced as such without names

this happens in html

sara found role was announced without name

good idea to have parity to html

but aria is more specific

joanie: 1.1 - 1.2 changed spec to say authors must provide a name

user agents need a backup plan

best way is to not make it a landmark

like html

contention

form doesn't want to be generic if it is not a landmark

choices - landmark, generic, something in between

"this is a form"

"tell me all the things in this form"

IA2 role landmark

<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/100

<carmacleod> Should form-with-name map to IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK?

issue for both core aam and html-aam

need several people to look at this mappings table

will provide Pr

<aaronlev> Chrome/IA2 exposes <form> without name as IA2_ROLE_SECTION, and with name as IA2_ROLE_FORM

and issue

<aaronlev> https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:content/test/data/accessibility/html/form-expected-win.txt?q=form-expected-win&ss=chromium

Matt: screen readers would ignore it

if role=form has an effect

any at all

author is expressing intent

Matt: can't imagine why we would tell an author to do that

Joanne: give it a name when using role=form

<siri> like for section element give a name to announce as region

jamesn: larger issue

tackle in parrallel with the one Scott put on the agenda

joanie: James Craig, I am unsure of apple mappings

jamesn: directon of this?

a div with role=form should be exposed as if it was not there

<aaronlev> You can see how Chrome maps nameless and named forms to all platforms here:

<aaronlev> https://source.chromium.org/search?q=%2Fform-expected-&ss=chromium

<aaronlev> The first form is nameless, the second one has a name

siri: main element, nav element AT exposes

<form>should expose it

jamesn: just expose an unnamed form?

matt: but not as a landmark region

jamesn: why not

?

Matt: region not exposes as a region without a name

matt: creates unintentional landmarks

big problem

carmacleod: github forms are goofy

form elements

scotto: they are form elements with names

jamesn: coding problem

Matt: if we have naming requirement

no name then not a landmark

scott did it for html forms

form element is not exposed as a landmark unless it is named

Roberto: landmark element with role=region?

region is just one of the landmark roles

there are 7

native landmarks don't require namesw!

siri html doesn't have section element

siri: agrees no need to have name

names will be helpful

with many forms

melsumner: forms never seen div role=form

has anyone seen that?

need more info, method action, other stuff

how do you get values to the backend

should be allowd to fail

Harris: benefit to using <form> for enter key submission

Sarah has seen this

legacy code

Robert, in AEM

scotto: use most appropriate landmark

jamesn: there are other things than just form elements on the page

<melsumner> for clarity, I advocate for this scenario being allowed to fail because the author is failing on multiple levels here

jcraig:

do we need to map this doen'st look like it looking for guidance

matt: div role=form no name to role=generic

?

jamesn: role=form map to navigation with no name

carmacleod: form is the only role that matters

carmacleod: maps to native element that is form

map to whatever the base html element if role=form is not there?

jcraig: fallback roles

account for in PR

Jamie had a strong opinion

carmacleod: needs help on this

<siri> Why to use role=form why can't we role=none if it is generic

rrsagent make minutes

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 185 (Thu Dec 2 18:51:55 2021 UTC).

Diagnostics

Maybe present: aaronlev, jamesn, jcraig, joanie, joanne, Matt, micheal, Roberto, scott