W3C

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

03 Sep 2020

Attendees

Present
StefanS_, harris, Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, CurtBellew, sarah_higley, Matt_King, Scott_O
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
harris

Contents


<scribe> scribe: harris

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1318

jamesn: jcraig can you clarify this one?

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/984

jamesn: when I last looked, we had a work in progress label on it. but now it seems like its being waited on

jcraig: I've got a couple similar ones in 1.3 assigned to me but I haven't looked in a while
... are we blocked for 1.2 on this?

jamesn: is this something that can go to 1.3 (984 PR)?

jcraig: I can't imagine that an editors note is a blocker. carol do you think this is a blocker?

jamesn: to me it depends on if 984 is a 1.2 or 1.3 milestone ticket

https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/91

Scott_O: technology is rad!

<Scott_O> so glad that made it in

jamesn: we were going to put all accName things as 1.2 is that ok?

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1316

jamesn: I dont know what to do with this but I think this a 1.3 thing
... I'd still like some comments on this one

jcraig: translatable is effectively "its ok to auto translate" which doesn't seem realistic for either of the braille attributes

jamesn: we should put a note and separate some of these out

jcraig: maybe we should change it to "auto translatable"

jamesn: we're following html on this though

https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-08-27+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues

https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1315

jamesn: we talked about this last week and we're still waiting on review

https://github.com/search?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam++label%3Adeep-dive&type=Issues

bryan: I'd like to discuss the trim one

Matt_King: do we need a full deep dive for https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/559?
... I wonder if we should 'frame' this as a group. Decide what areas need to be explored etc

jamesn: I agree, its not ready for deep dive quite yet
... bryan do you think the whitespace one is ready for deep dive next week?

Bryan: yea sounds good

jamesn: whitespace it is!

1.2 CR Call for Consensus & @risk items

joanie: I am starting to write tests...basically just getting everything ready for CR
... anything that maybe we're not going to get an implementation for, we should mark @risk

jamesn: we can come to the group next week (or earlier) for a call for consensus

joanie: getting everyone on the same page on spin button is something we've got to figure out

Matt_King: something like that, moving to 1.3 doesn't seem like a big deal
... I think APG guidance assumed that this (spin button) was a done deal

[[OPEN UI] Skeleton aria role proposal](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1317)

jamesn: is this something we want to consider? or is aria-busy sufficient?

Scott_O: I don't think this is needed

Matt_King: I agree, a role does not help here

sarah_higly: I agree

Scott_O: I can reply on the ticket

[Should menuitem inside menubar be exposed differently? Or haspopup=menu?](https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/80)

jamesn: is there anything we need to do about this? change core-aam?
... is this 1.3? or 1.2?

joanie: if we have implementations, I don't see why we can't do it now

jcraig: I don't think any change would be necessary for webkit

Matt_King: they are currently getting exposed as buttons
... I looked at all the menu examples in APG and it is not just in the menubar that they are showing up as buttons
... Regardless of context, if the menuitem has the haspopup attribute, they are getting exposed as a button

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/80#issuecomment-677856849

Matt_King: it is just inconsistent with the way the OS menus are

jamesn: this is just going to be dealt with in the 1.3 timeframe if anything else is needed

jcraig: if we have to test this in 1.2 it might make sense to move it there

jamesn: it seems like the chrome implementation has been pushed
... Im taking the agenda off of this

[Clarify "required owned element"](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1033)

jamesn: carolyn isn't here so let's punt this to next week

[Generalize AccessibilityRole/AriaAttributes IDL](https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/984)

jamesn: this is the PR that jcraig has agreed to look at
... we're going to take a look at decide if it is a 1.2 or 1.3

jcraig: I will assign the 1.3 milestone to it
... I will make a single idl branch to put this stuff together
... unless anyone wants it to be more granular

[1.3 triage](https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+no%3Aproject+milestone%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22+sort%3Acreated-asc)

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/689

jamesn: is this something we're going to get in the 1.3 timeframe

jcraig: if we're ok with tokens before the text field, then this is effectively a button. It's definitely confusing to do this on the web

jamesn: I don't see how we can do this in 1.3

Matt_King: we have that pill thing in APG and it can be done properly on the web. But if it shows up in the text field that is different

jcraig: it is challenging because historically inputs have limited the content to text only. It can't have child nodes

Matt_King: if you do content editable, and the content has a link, in some implementations I can hear with my screen reader that I'm going in and out of a link

jcraig: on mac, we'll have an "attributed string", string ranges with properties (link, bold, etc)

Matt_King: but core-aam doesn't have anything to do with that though, right?

jcraig: yes

Scott_O: is this an issue that would benefit from working with the open ui folks?

jamesn: that is a good suggestion

sarah_higley: is this at all related to aria annotations?

jcraig: this is more like an object inside of text field and the other one is a range that is pointed at outside the text field
... annotations is about associating the 2
... this is a more granular finite control in the UI

Matt_King: I'm concerned about adding a role here. When you have a token its not always going to be the same role. If you have a token role, how does that provide any useful information to the assistive technology user. It seems it should always be a button, or a link, or if its selectable thing maybe represented as a checkbox. Are tokens never not interactable

jcraig: The benefit is that role descriptions will tell the AT user "this is what to expect"
... for tokens, you can't do a subedit so you interact with the range as a whole
... sometimes these mean "delete". If you press it, you'll remove it from the list

jamesn: I've moved this to 1.4 and a open ui flag on it
... it'd be nice to have an APG example for this

<jcraig> /me I have to drop. thanks all.

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/704

jamesn: we changed this, right? what does the scrollbar spec say in editors draft?
... aria-valuenow is required

Matt_King: we changed it to required

jamesn: Since its required now, do we need to worry about this? I say no

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/721

Matt_King: we might want to close this. This was related to collapsable listboxes (before we changed comboboxes)
... I think this is overcome by events now that we have the revised combobox in 1.2

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/723

https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/730

jamesn: are we ever going to do this?

Matt_King: does anybody make a web-based keyboard

Sina: it is impossible on the web right now
... do we agree that an aria passthrough shouldn't exist?

Scott_O: this seems like something that is currently blocked by AOM

jamesn: is there an issue for that somewhere?

Sina: this is not 1.3, right?

jamesn: yes, not 1.3

Matt_King: we don't think we want a "key" role. If we are going to solve this problem we would solve it in another way

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version (CVS log)
$Date: 2020/09/03 18:00:44 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date 
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/which doesn't seem realistic/which doesn't seem realistic for either of the braille attributes/
Default Present: StefanS_, harris, Joanmarie_Diggs, jamesn, CurtBellew, sarah_higley, Matt_King, Scott_O
Present: StefanS_ harris Joanmarie_Diggs jamesn CurtBellew sarah_higley Matt_King Scott_O
Found Scribe: harris
Inferring ScribeNick: harris

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth


WARNING: No date found!  Assuming today.  (Hint: Specify
the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.)
Or specify the date like this:
<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

WARNING: IRC log location not specified!  (You can ignore this 
warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain 
a link to the original IRC log.)


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]