<scribe> scribe: jeanne
Janina: We have two people from
WCAG3 which is supposed to address emerging technologies.
... for some technologies, such as xR (virtual & augmented
reality)
... RQTF can inform the work in WCAG3 and WCAG3 could inform
the RQTF
Josh: The timing is great. It's
been on my radar for a long while
... from the emerging tech side, I'm interested in developing
techniques for emerging tech
... there is a lot of good work in RQTF
Jason: I'm helping facility
matters on the RQTF side. For a first approximation there are
two parts of the RQTF task force work: reviewing research paper
and issues, and careful discussion of issues related to the
emerging tech.
... a slight danger to looking at "emerging technologiess" that
WCAG3 is doing
... numerous applications are out there already and they have
to be included in W3C Technologies. THey will be even more
important by the time we get to REC.
<Joshue108> JS: I've been fascinated in XR for a long time, and esp the a11y angle.
<Joshue108> I'd like to see what will work in the short term.
<Joshue108> Keeping in mind the long term perspective.
<Joshue108> Scope is an issue - we have restrictions in our charter.
<Joshue108> There is great opportunity and also need.
<Joshue108> WCAG needs to show that it can accommodate emerging tech.
<Joshue108> JS: You are looking for low hanging fruit.
<Joshue108> JS: Yes we are :-)
Judy: I think that it is
critically important that WCAG 3.0 has some content that is
beyond desktop web and mobile and goes into the web aspect of
emerging tech
... getting the document framework together that brings
different people to the table that the content side
... we shouldn't wait for the content experts to start working
on emerging content
... of course we won't attract experts until we start
working
... I have a different perspective on scope, because we will
tie it to web. There is a lot we can say from a web viewpoint.
There are a dozen groups in W3C that are working on xR
<Joshue108> JS: I'm in agreement with you Judy - was responding to earlier comment with Jason.
<Joshue108> The scope is web.
Janina: RTC is another area of
emerging tech that would be very valuable right now.
... video description is pointing the MAUR and saying it
pertains, and how it pertains
... in an entertainment space, you may have to cut off
descriptions to fit the time, while in education, the thorough
description is more important than keeping the timing.
... someone should start writing up captions
Judy: We are talking about
captions in Immersive Captions CG. We are discussing that in
WCAG 2.2 that sets a foundation of what we could do in
WCAG3.
... we aren't saying enough about video conference
accessibility, but that could be done in WCAG 2.2
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask more about low hanging fruit and options
Josh: What could we do and what is it required?
Janina: We don't have the people on the call to talk about 2.2
Judy: Captioning for video conferences could be done in 2.2 as long as we don't mess with the success criteria
Josh: We have user needs for
WCAG3
... what we have the basis of frameworks: User needs, gap
analysis. There are new techniques needed.
... an extension of existing success criteria
<Joshue108> JS: I'd like to answer that!
<Joshue108> JS: Some on the call may not know where WCAG 3.0 is at now.
<Joshue108> We are looking at a new structure - guidelines that are tech independent.
<Joshue108> I was thinking we may need a guideline for XR - but may not be ready for that.
<Joshue108> When talking about low hanging fruit, it could be a method that relates to XR but sits under a general principle.
<Joshue108> Not SC specific pass stuff - we want to get away from that orientation.
<Joshue108> Need a broader implementation level.
<Joshue108> Captioning may be the low hanging fruit - we have a captioning guideline.
<Joshue108> @RTC could also fit the bill for some of this Jeanne.
Janina: What we know about a basic concept needs to be implemented specifically in xR: for example, what you are captioning may not be in the immediate field of view -- they may be behind you, and therefore it has to be queued up.
Judy: There are captioning user
requirements being developed. The granularity and usefulness
that is coming out of research is exciting.
... the xR Access community group is pulling together
stakeholder use cases for xR.
... Larry Goldberg said that the framework may serve multiple
disability communities.
<Zakim> sajkaj, you wanted to talk about an xr guideline
Judy: there is interesting work
to be piggybacked on
... VR space with high quality audio, is even more immersive.
We need spacial audio in a guidelines environment.
Janina: If you have two ears working, or if you have hearing loss, you still have an immersive experience.
Judy: multiple disaiblities
Jason: We need a gap analysis for
WCAG3. We need to make the RQTF work be relevant to what WCAG3
needs.
... we have to have a framework for collaboration across RQTF,
XR and WCAG3
... we need to be thinking about Techniques to develop, the
technology dependent guidance. We have to look at the broader
general principles that need to apply across technolgies, so
that everything that is supposed to be included in the
guideline is included.
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to talk about A11y Architecture
<Judy> mutatis mutandis == change the least possible
Jason: careful alignment of work across groups that is the greatest importance here.
Joshue: There is other work in RQTF on accessibility architecture.
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/WebXR_Standards_and_Accessibility_Architecture_Issues
Joshue: one is the WebXR
Accessibility ARchitecture Issues
... excellent contributors to this document. It's a jumping off
point.
<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/XRA-Semantics-Module
Joshue: Also assistive technology
semantics for WebXR
... it's important for known 2D content, we have known
architecture for Assistive Tech. We don't have that for 3D.
Certain things for XR will be less challenging, but there are
other things that may be quantum leaps.
Janina: I would like to start
wrapping up
... thanks for the overview.
... we need a low hanging fruit for a FPWD that is months
away
... Could some of the active members of the XR Captioning start
writing up and follow the WCAG3 template?
Judy: Our focus is 2.2 because
that is more immanent, but I can ask.
... THere are scores of potential requirements that are needed
just for captioning. We have been looking for a working
taxonomy. '
... for something that is truly a gap so it is normative
Janina: The principle is that something that is not in your field of vision needs to be captioned.
Judy: That's interesting, and would prime the pump for how to do it.
<Joshue108> JS: I can help you Janina/
Janina: I think we could do that and people would grok it.
Judy: If it is something in WCAG3
that didn't come out of the group from the deaf
community.
... I'm multitasking and can't send it right now, but I will
send it.
Jason: we don't know where the
various components to satisfy the requirements aren't going to
reside.
... especially where guidance related to authoring tools and
user agents
... it's still directed toward application developers.
Janina: We are looking for what the API is going to support. WCAG3 will say, this is what the API needs to support and this is how you know that it is working.
Jason: THe guideline layer is going to be the general and the technology supported part is not easily updated. It will be important that the normative and abstract portion clearly addresses the issues that the methods are defined for.
Janina: The incontrovertable is likely to be a problem. We are working toward "can you do this enough, or can you do a really good job of developing"
<Joshue108> JS: WCAG has the past fail at a different level.
<Joshue108> The SCs are normative and the guidelines dont have specificity to make descisions about pass fail.
<Joshue108> The overall score that you get should be a reflection of how good the job is over all.
<Joshue108> There may be a fail level that says anything below number x is a fail.
<Joshue108> There will be an overall score etc - but moving away from individual pass fail.
<Joshue108> So its about how good a job you are doing..
Janina: VR in remote conferencing.
Judy: there is a group that is working on, @@, a VR remote conference addon to Zoom.
Janina: Judy will give us a list of what the group is working on
<Joshue108> JS: We are waiting for virtual F2F this week..
Janina: Jeanne and Janina are
going to write up an early draft of the captions in VR and send
it back to the group for comments
... Judy will take it up with CG.
Judy: The CG group is focusing on 2.2
Janina: We need to cross-communicate within the groups.
<Joshue108> JS: Will I ask Michael to set up a list?
<Joshue108> JB: Batch mail would be good for now..
<Joshue108> JS: Works for me.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/technolgoie/technologies/ Succeeded: s/@RTC could also fit the bit/@RTC could also fit the bill/ Present: jasonjgw Joshue108 sajkaj jeanne judy Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne WARNING: No date found! Assuming today. (Hint: Specify the W3C IRC log URL, and the date will be determined from that.) Or specify the date like this: <dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002 People with action items: WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]