<janina> scribe: janina
<Joshue_108_> scribenick: Joshue108
<Joshue_108_> JW: We have the RTC User Requirements doc which will be brought forward for a CFC after CSUN
<Joshue_108_> Will be published then after.
<Joshue_108_> Josh working on editorial changes, discussion on list
<Joshue_108_> We have prepared our use cases on verifiable credentials.
<Joshue_108_> Some email discussion
<Joshue_108_> Thats an overview.
<Joshue_108_> Accurate?
<Joshue_108_> Additions?
<Joshue_108_> JS: Correct.
<Joshue_108_> The verifiable crediential comments have been reviewed etc.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Sorry I'm confused!
<Joshue_108_> JW: APA did get a chance to look at what was reviewed.
<Joshue_108_> JS: We didn't take it up, because of the Silver question.
<Joshue_108_> <Silver issue resolved - Q about Maths in WCAG 3.0 - there will be maths in the spec>
<Joshue_108_> <discussion on colour contrast formula - not for the authors to fix, but for the tools>
<Joshue_108_> JW: We have discussed it in APA - but Verifiable Cred wasn't discussed so much.
<Joshue_108_> Janina is the next step to take that back to APA?
<Joshue_108_> JS: Yes, it will be to Manu. I've an action to ping him and let him know, give overview etc about our killer use case, and other good ones.
<Joshue_108_> <crickets>
<Joshue_108_> JW: The changes that Josh made to the RTC a11y doc met with general approval.
<Joshue_108_> Scott had favourable comments as did I.
<Joshue_108_> On track to APA CFC soon.
<Joshue_108_> Comments?
<Joshue_108_> SH: It reads really well, really good.
<Joshue_108_> <comments on CSUN>
<Joshue_108_> JW: Things are in flux.
<Joshue_108_> We are planning on being there but it may change (Marku H and I)
<Joshue_108_> SN: Awaiting advice today.
<Joshue_108_> JB: Thanks for the confirmation.
<Joshue_108_> JB: Will be discussing in WAI today.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Janina, we may need to chat about our schedule for early next week.
<Joshue_108_> There is an issue around publications.
<Joshue_108_> From an APA perspective?
<Joshue_108_> JS: Protocols and Formats (PF) used to not meet the week after CSUN.
<Joshue_108_> Josh's changes are ready to go.
<Joshue_108_> So things are fluid, we shouldn't let publication etc be stalled.
<Joshue_108_> It is possible we could meet next week anyway.
<Joshue_108_> JOC: I need to link in with Shawn about the schedule now post CSUN drama etc.
<Joshue_108_> JS: We could dive into this.
<Joshue_108_> JB: We may see a lot of activity next week with virtual meets etc.
<Joshue_108_> May be active offline.
<Joshue_108_> JB: If we are closed to publication we may want to continue that momentum.
<Joshue_108_> JW: So if CSUN isn't proceeding then we are looking at APA resumption next week, if not week after.
<Joshue_108_> We will work the schedule as the situation with the conf unfolds.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Sounds good. we are up to speed.
<Joshue_108_> Thanks to Josh for working on the editorial aspects.
<Joshue_108_> When master is updated we can proceed.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Lets discuss the privacy, a11y and security stuff.
<Joshue_108_> Interesting points made by Josh about how the browsing environment may reveal user characteristics about whether a person has a disability.
<Joshue_108_> The conculsion is that the aspects about the environment. may reveal this info - there are also regulatory aspects to protecting privacy.
<Joshue_108_> Browser history is obviously revealing.. I also raised broader approaches to privacy controls, and processing a la AI and ML.
<Joshue_108_> Janina brought up the issue of.. in what respects a11y and disability concerns are unique.
<Joshue_108_> And where they should be directed.
<Joshue_108_> JS: If we can unpick these things that will help with this work.
<Joshue_108_> JS: One addendum - there is also the use case where you want to reveal aspects of your fingerprint to access AAC or other personalisation services.
<Joshue_108_> So the question is who gets to know? How to manage that?
<Joshue_108_> JS: For every app in Android you can control the location revealed to each app for example.
<Joshue_108_> SH: In Android 11 you can know reveal this just at run time, when the app is closed, the feature is turned off.
<Joshue_108_> SH: The right to know, is very important - there are tangible benefits of this.
<Joshue_108_> See the link I put into the list.
<Joshue_108_> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-20/my-health-record-opt-outs-top-2.5-million/10830220
<Joshue_108_> JW: Very helpful Scott.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Discussed generic and more personalised access to user info.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Open question of the level of information that needs to be provided.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Don't want to overload the user with prompts and dialogs etc.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Someone knows all this stuff, Google for example.
<Joshue_108_> They may use it exclusively.
<Joshue_108_> What can we do technologically - regulatory question.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Also another avenue is the ISP - they host and have access to user info.
<Joshue_108_> JW: When it comes to mechanisms that can disclose then we don't want to overburden the user, but need to recommend control to that.
<jasonjgw> Josh: the essence of the issue is intent - what someone intends to do with the impression of the user that they derive.
<jasonjgw> This often happens at a relatively low-level browser analysis.
<jasonjgw> We also need to address personalization mechanisms. Josh suggests generalized protection, and then allowing for requests for permission where personalization should be supported.
<jasonjgw> Josh: clarifies that the mention of intent was more on the provider's side - the perspective of the Web application. The user's intent is a different matter.
<Joshue_108_> SH: Good point Janina!
<Judy> [jb notes that there is an emerging area of work on "social and ethical responsibilities of computing" and a push to make that part of CS curricula.]
<Joshue_108_> JS: In these cases, when furthering the example - can this be detected by querying browser level APIs.
<Joshue_108_> This could be used and combined with other indicators - and raising the likely hood further.
<Joshue_108_> JS: We need to think about the total set, based on a multiplicity of indicators.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Its accumulative picture.
<Joshue_108_> JW: Seems to be right.
<Joshue_108_> The more data they have the greater privacy risk they are etc.
<Joshue_108_> JS: Or a privacy service, like Credit card companies <Janina gives example>
<Joshue_108_> SH: Mentions the double edged sword.
<jasonjgw> Josh: suggests we need to consider the defaults, to avoid overwhelming users with permission requests. He also recognizes that it's the aggregated information collected about a user that matters.
<jasonjgw> Josh isn't sure what next steps should be taken.
<jasonjgw> Josh will take an action to formulate the priaacy issues.
<Joshue_108_> JOC: I'd be happy to tag team it with Scott on this.
<Joshue_108_> JW: We still have uncertainty for next week..
<Joshue_108_> JS: The question is do we meet next Weds.
<Joshue_108_> SH: I won't be here next week.
<Joshue_108_> JB: I won't be there.
<Joshue_108_> JOC: I wont be in California either
<Joshue_108_> JW: I don't know yet
<Joshue_108_> JS: We can have a short meeting
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