<CharlesL> chair+

trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Personalization Task Force Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 09 December 2019

we have quarum!

<scribe> scribe: lisaseemankest

Continue distractions (see list thread at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Nov/0011.html)

<CharlesL> moving:  Non-essential distracting content that includes movement. This includes: computer-generated moving images; content that  starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations on the screen without user interaction.

<CharlesL> messages: Communication sent to or left for the user or the interface that allows interaction of text-based messages. Messages may also be automaticaly updating. Essential system messages should not be tagged as distractions. 

<CharlesL> overlay: A part of an application or content that is non essential and displayed over the top of the main content in the same window such as a  popup or child window that blocks user interaction to the parent window

<CharlesL> third-party: An advertisement or offer for a product, feature or service or content that is not under the authors' control, that is not essential to the user's current task.

<Roy> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Dec/0008.html

<CharlesL> JF: animated GIFS can autostart or not like in FaceBook.

moving: Non-essential distracting content that includes movement. This includes: computer-generated moving images; animated gifs, content that starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations on the screen without user interaction.

john sugests to add to the lang

ls: mivment is not user initiated

<CharlesL> moving: Non-essential distracting content that includes movement. This

<CharlesL> includes: computer-generated moving images; animated gifs; content that starts

<CharlesL> automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change

<CharlesL> locations on the screen without user interaction.

Non-essential distracting content that includes movement not generated by the user.

Janina - agrees, also screen reader users will like this

charles: not initiated by the user

steve: what about sliding content

<CharlesL> moving:  Non-essential distracting content that includes movement not initiated by the user. This

<CharlesL> includes: computer-generated moving images; animated gifs; content that  starts

<CharlesL> automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change

<CharlesL> locations on the screen without user interaction.

lisa: yes

janina- you asked for the action not this affect

steve - sometimes it is user initiatiative and still a distraction

charles - leave out user initiative

john, that is a screen transition

<CharlesL> moving:  Non-essential distracting content that includes movement. This

<CharlesL> includes: computer-generated moving content; animated gifs; content that  starts

<CharlesL> automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change

<CharlesL> locations on the screen without user interaction.

+1

<CharlesL> New proposal :moving:  Non-essential distracting content that includes movement. This

<CharlesL> includes: moving content; animated gifs; content that  starts

<CharlesL> automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change

<CharlesL> locations on the screen without user interaction.

john: are we going to provide timings ike in wcag

lisa: all moving can distract the user, so we do not need to define bounderies

moving onto messages

<CharlesL> messages: Communication sent to or left for the user or the interface that

<CharlesL> allows interaction of text-based messages. Messages may also be

<CharlesL> automatically updating. Essential system messages should not be tagged as

<CharlesL> distractions.

john: should it be limited to rtc

<CharlesL> JF:I am concerned that this may be too vague. (What is "communication for the

<CharlesL> interface"?) If this is intended to cover off real-time communications

<CharlesL> (chatbots, etc.) then we should say so more explicitly. Previously, we had

<CharlesL> a value of "Chat" with the following definition: "An embedded real-time

<CharlesL> communication that may or may not be initiated by the user. This includes

<CharlesL> but is not limited to WebRTC." I think we should be focused on the

<CharlesL> "real-time" nature of the distraction more.

<CharlesL> LS: we are combining message and chat

<CharlesL> scribe+

<CharlesL> … how distracting, a message is a key point this content pings in your face and that is what you are concentrating on not what you were doing. that is what we want to be able to turn off.

<CharlesL> … if we do want to include Real-time then we must deal with non-realtime

<CharlesL> JF: if its not real-time isn't it an offer?

<CharlesL> LS: it could be a tip ("did you know you can save your work automatically")

<CharlesL> JF: could be a popup/overlay

<CharlesL> … it is real-time interacting with a chatbot or a real-person.

<CharlesL> … message implies gets you involved in a 2way communication.

<CharlesL> … where as a tooltip help would be a overlay or 3rd party

<CharlesL> … I am asking as much as questioning

<CharlesL> LS: I wonder if we should keep messages then.

<CharlesL> JF: messages and chat have in common is real-time

<CharlesL> … content inside is either part of the application or a 3rd party offer etc.

<CharlesL> JF: we have it for distraction and destination (messages).

<CharlesL> LS: if the real-time thing is not important.

<CharlesL> JF: chat is already part of destination.

<JF> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/personalization-semantics/rewrite-prototype/content/index.html#values

<CharlesL> … we got rid of chat in favor of message in distraction.

distraction message Communication sent to or left for the user.

<CharlesL> CL: we don't really care that a popup is an offer vs. a chat message right?

<CharlesL> LS: I would prefer to include any message that RTC.

<CharlesL> JF: we do say includes but not limited to RTC

<CharlesL> LS: I don't really care other either way.

<CharlesL> Sharon: I know those popups are a distraction RTC ones in general.

sharon: i know these popups are a problem

charles: do we care if a chat is intiated by a person or bot

John,: no it doesnt mater

lisa: site owner wont know always if it is a bot

charles: can be misleading - even if not a distraction

should we call it ut someplace

LS: could you open an issue

janina: is it an AG WG issue

ls: (on sharons slack noise - should we point ourt changes

john - messages should be auditory

<JF> messages: Communication (auditory or visual) sent to or left for the user or the interface that allows interaction of text-based messages. Messages may also be automaticaly updating. Essential system messages should not be tagged as distractions.

<JF> messages: Communication (auditory or visual) sent to or left for the user or the interface that allows interaction of text-based messages. Messages may also be automaticaly updating. Essential system messages should not be tagged as distractions. This includes but is not limited to WebRTC.

This includes but is not limited to WebRTC.

<CharlesL> +1

+1

<sharon> +1

<CharlesL> LS: we need something for audio

<CharlesL> Janina: I agree sound informational (ear-cons or sonicons)

janina- sonicons, are also a distraction sometimes

JF- jepodu theam can be a distraction

<CharlesL> JF: I think auditory includes is important. Theme of Jeopardy could be a distraction

LS: maybe use changing

steve: also tactile

JF or senrory

<CharlesL> JF: Steves word tactile … sensory

changing: Non-essential distracting content that includes sensory events or movement. This includes: computer-generated moving images; content that starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations on the screen without user interaction.
... Non-essential distracting content that includes sensory events or movement. This includes: computer-generated moving images; auto starting auditory , content that starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations on the screen without user interaction.

(I took the old deffintion

<CharlesL> moving:  Non-essential distracting content that includes sensory events or movement. This

<CharlesL> includes: moving content; animated gifs; auto starting auditory , content that  starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations on the screen without user interaction.

<JF> sensory: Non-essential distracting content that includes movement, sound or other forms of sensory feedback. This includes: moving images (videos, animated GIFs,etc.); content that starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations or generate audio feedback on the user's system without user interaction.

LS: lets lose "without user interaction"

Charles are we good with that?

<CharlesL> sensory:  Non-essential distracting content that includes movement, sound or other forms of sensory feedback. This includes: moving images (videos, animated GIFs,etc.); content that starts automatically or is automatically updating; and elements that change locations or generate audio feedback on the user's system.

+1

<sharon> +1

<JF> +1

<CharlesL> +1

LS: can we leave in "etc"?

john and charles: yes, and it future proffes it

explainer\

<CharlesL> Next monday will be the last meeting for this year

explainer:

https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/content/index.html

<Roy> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Dec/0007.html

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-personalization-tf/2019Dec/0007.html

<CharlesL> LS: issues with talking about this may be an aria module.

<CharlesL> … made it more exciting so folks will understand and want to read and know why we are doing this.

<CharlesL> … introduction changes, and maybe we want to add 1 or 2 examples showing a good story.

<CharlesL> JF: +1 on illustrating some examples users stories are awesome!

<CharlesL> … all in favor of user stories, who will write them?

<JF> +1 to adding some form of user-stories to the Explainer document

<CharlesL> LS: we have a couple, we could pull in.

<CharlesL> JS: I can help if you start them.

<CharlesL> … we should cross reference them (we should repeat them)

<CharlesL> … thinking of cross linking them

<CharlesL> Charles: I will update these two definitions we discussed today.

<CharlesL> trackbot, end meeting

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Default Present: CharlesL, stevelee, Roy, janina, JF, Sharon, Lisa
Present: CharlesL stevelee Roy janina JF Sharon Lisa
Regrets: Becky
Found Scribe: lisaseemankest
Inferring ScribeNick: LisaSeemanKest
Found Date: 09 Dec 2019
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