<joanie> agenda: this
<joanie> agenda: be done
<carmacleod> scribe: carmacleod
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1015
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1014 is editorial and has a PR
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1011
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1015 - remove text from Note, make consistent
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1011 - starts with nested lists, then switches discussion to groups
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1011
joanie: authoring guidance, asking APG TF to look into it
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/1016
<harris> +1
<pkra> +1
<Stefan> +1
<harris> squash away ;)
<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1001
joanie: Add topics for TPAC to issue 1001
<joanie> Once reviewed and added to the agenda we will remove the F2FCandidate label and replace with a F2F label.
stefan: will add a few topics
<harris> scribe: harris
scott: when role generic lands, a
custom element should be mapped to role=generic anyway...if not
potentially role=presentation if it is nothing more than a
wrapper for a text node.
... the whole argument of "if authors should really use this
role" went out the window in my opinion
carmacleod: Custom elements will
be mapped to generic so there is no point in giving them an
exception status
... I wrote some questions down in the issue:
<carmacleod> https://github.com/w3c/aria/pull/805#issuecomment-512654458
<joanie> 1. Are there any valid use cases for allowing authors to set role="generic"?
<joanie> i.e. "Authors SHOULD NOT use in content..." or "MUST NOT"?
joanie: do we want validators to flag use of role=generic?
scott: Is there a use case for someone using an <article /> element wanting it to be consumed as a div?
<dbass> Authors are strongly encouraged to view the div element as an element of last resort, for when no other element is suitable.
carmacleod: by having many more elements default to role=generic...are implementers going to be grumpy because we're implying that they are not allowed to do that
joanie: the html elements defaulting to generic, doesn't necessarily mean its has to be included
<dbass> i can see a developer using <div role=generic>
joanie: if someone explicitly sets role=generic, then it has to be included in the accessibility tree
carmacleod: this needs to be
clear in the aam
... update to "SHOULD not"?
joanie: makes sense to me
+1
<MarkMcCarthy> +1
<joanie> 2.
<joanie> What happens if an author gives a generic a tabindex or adds event handling?
<joanie> i.e. Allowed? Author error?
joanie: if an author has a valid reason to use role=generic, this would be identical to someone adding a div/span with no semantic info and slapping tabIndex
+1
<MarkMcCarthy> +1
carmacleod: adding tabIndex gives it semantics
joanie: it could signify it
having some importance
... I can't imagine any screen reader is going to take a
<span role=generic>foo</span> and read out "Foo.
generic"
... I imagine it would just say "Foo"
carmacleod: if you put presentation on something AND give it a tabIndex, it'll revert back to the actual element's default role
joanie: let's say an author does role=presentation and adds tabIndex=0...we can't have a browser focus something and not have AT read something out
<carmacleod> http://w3c.github.io/aria/#tree_inclusion
joanie: the only way you are
going to get an accessible event is if the tree has an
accessible object
... we're getting 2 things confused. with our ARIA hats on
we're talking about explicit roles only
... in terms of the ARIA spec, authors shouldn't be using this
role in the first place
<MarkMcCarthy> no disagreement on point 2 fromme
<joanie> 3. Would it be helpful to mention that "generics can be used as the target of a relation such as aria-labelledby or aria-describedby"?
carmacleod: is it useful to add the above? or is it distracting?
scott: we don't need it right now. it sounds like authoring guidance
<MarkMcCarthy> +1 Scott
<jemma> I like Joanie's project time line for this issue.
<joanie> https://raw.githack.com/pkra/aria/braille-props-roledesc/index.html#aria-brailleroledescription
pkra: I've been working through
the 2nd round of feedback and I was hoping to get some
more...
... we focused on the role description because that seemed to
be easier to talk about
... the first was a change to the name, so it is no longer
aria-roledescription-braille, it is now
aria-brailleroledescription
joanie: what john foliot voiced is that we want to avoid getting into name spacing problems
+1
<MarkMcCarthy> +1
<Stefan> +1
<pkra> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/pkra/aria/pull/924.html#aria-brailleroledescription
pkra: there were some changes to
put more warnings in
... this should be clearly phrased to authors to not use this
unless there are certain it is needed
<joanie> Certain AND have the expertise to do it.
pkra: I used the "SHOULD not"
phrasing...less threatening
... added wording about unicode braille characters
... you should only have a brailledroledescription if you also
have a roledescription
... I updated the example to match what we have there now (with
unicode braille characters)
... any new comments / thoughts on this topic?
... what about whitespace characters?
joanie: role description doesn't allow it
pkra: I started with the role
description as a template
... so it is consistent with that
joanie: you don't hit spacebar to
get "no dots raised", you use a specific character
... it can not contain only no dots
NeilSoiffer: I agree with joanie, that is an interesting point
pkra: I think we all agree with that
NeilSoiffer: I think there is already a definition of whitespace
pkra: sounds like there is a need
for clarification
... now I realize that a "MUST NOT" is wrong
... I will clarify / fix this
<pkra> bye
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Stefan_Schnabel, melanierichards, Scott_O, janina, MichaelC, pkra, harris, irfan, jemma, dbass, CharlesL Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Stefan_Schnabel melanierichards Scott_O janina MichaelC pkra harris irfan jemma dbass CharlesL MarkMcCarthy Regrets: Matt_King Found Scribe: carmacleod Inferring ScribeNick: carmacleod Found Scribe: harris Inferring ScribeNick: harris Scribes: carmacleod, harris ScribeNicks: carmacleod, harris Found Date: 18 Jul 2019 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]