W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

15 Nov 2018

Attendees

Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, jamesn, MarkMcCarthy, Irfan, melanierichards, HarrisSchneiderman, Bryan_Garaventa, janina, matt_king
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Irfan

Contents


<scribe> scribe: Irfan

Charter

Next Meetings

jn: next week no meeting. next meeting will be on 29th nov

Issue Triage

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E%3D2018-11-08+

jn: first one aria issue...
... will talk about issue 841
... going to assign it to caroline
... putting it to milestone
... I can move on to the accName issues

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/core-aam/issues/32

jn: coreAAM we have 1 issue

Annotations

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/749

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/ARIA-annotations-draft-proposal

jn: annotations issue # 749 is major issue. there was a specific question that Aaron wanted to ask

Aaron: An annotation is visible information within a page, that is pointed via a relationship by the content that is related to it
... refrence.. aria-annotation type equals.. reference.. in that case we have roles which is confusing. It occured that its a great idea to have a new property. I suggest that we can use role.. it would get ride of the problems of having two different type of mark-up that is trying to say same thing. we can have role=annotation...

mk: i thought about it from the perspective of SR.. lets say you have an an element or list item or group or papa .. that has this property... dont know what the screen reader is going to put for braille users. my reason for leaning back towards role
... we need tot think about.. what is purpose of communicating semantic.
... double headed monster.. a paragraph and a note.. difficult to convey for screen reader

<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to say that the property is a descriptor of the relationship

<HarrisSchneiderman> This isn't my original idea but basically +1ing the argument against using role...it seems awkward because roles are used to either describe the type of widget presented or describe the structure of the page. I supposed one could nest an annotation inside of an element with a needed semantic role

jn: can someone explain, what kind of annotation basically determine what is on?

mk: you need to distinguish different type of details.

<janina> +1 to Matt

JN: why would not attr tell the same thing?

mk: reading a comment thread... some of them suggest revision or edits.. if you go and read the sidebar, having a way go from element to element that is independent which contains all semantic markup.. you have no way where is one comment ends.. that would a purpose of having a container of begining the comment and ending the comment
... aria-annonation="comment" role="region".. how would I treat it? do I need to treat a property as a part of label.... you want to pickup your comment inside the region?

jn: aaron, are you happy with that direction?
... using a role

aaron: yes, I agree.. because we dont have this footnote as end up situation
... i prefer to have it one way

jn: i think people want all these role..

jd: personally i dont have any issue.

jn: if it is right way to do it.. let do it

aaron: apple can remap it to something else instead of role

mk: on button if you put aria-pressed it become toggle. from authoring perspective and from a checking perspective, having two attr accomplish one thing is a complexity
... specially for widget, it is a big concern
... dont add any cognitive load to screen reader users

janina: there is a daisy document that has similar use case
... i dont know how does daisy do things but they support these kind of things

<joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/749#issuecomment-439118905

<joanie> azaroth42 commented an hour ago

<joanie> The J Paul Getty Trust would formally object to this unless it is at least aligned with existing W3C standards for Annotation.

jd: do you have any thought about it Aaron?

aaron: i think this objective is very unspecific. it will be helpful if they give any details about a particular line.
... i might be mis-reading but wording sounds very negative

janina: I think, publishing would really like this kind of support

jn: notice the person who commented is an editor
... we probably want to include them in the dicussion if we can

janina: some of the publications folks are already involved in the discussion

jn: do we have any action on this?

jd: I ahve put my comments

jn: anything else?

No ARIA property for “default” or “submit” button

jn: no aria property by default button

<HarrisSchneiderman> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/842

jn: primary button or default button or something like this

aaron: input type= submit as long as they are not disabled
... with respect to aria, i could not expect the same semantic

jd: i would be interested in having a discussion at the point when we decide to proceed. we want to make sure that AT can make use of it.
... we just want to keep it altering but have to come up with some thing that can make easy for AT

Checkbox has aria-checked required, but there is a default value for aria-checked

<HarrisSchneiderman> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/826

<jamesn> https://w3c.github.io/aria/#checkbox

<jamesn> https://w3c.github.io/aria/#document-handling_author-errors

jn: checkbox role as we have required state of property aria-checked as false. we would remove the default value from the table.

jd: to me it sounds fine because I am not author

mk: support this
... i dont know if we end up making this part of testing if someone has a checkbox property.. concern about this part

jn: UA should process the attr and process aria-checked as false. making a clear to author that they must provide a value

mk: you need to be very cognizant of the pros when you do this.

jn: will log the issue for each on of them..

mr: i can pickup some of the issues

harris: i can pick up some as well

jn: no meeting next week.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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Present: Joanmarie_Diggs MichaelC jamesn MarkMcCarthy Irfan melanierichards HarrisSchneiderman Bryan_Garaventa janina matt_king
Found Scribe: Irfan
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Found Date: 15 Nov 2018
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