<mikeCrabb> I'm here but only on IRC
TPAC this year; we will be meeting toward end of October. If you can make it, awesome and let us know.
Shawn: Next thing, requirements
prep. To get everyone up to speed. We've sent them to Alastair
to get survey to working group at the end of last week so we
could present during WG call today.
... Due to mixed emails, that didn't happen in time. We sent it
but he didn't see it. Tried to get on schedule anyway and then
send survey after the fact.
... Idea behind survey is to ensure people can see it...like
people at mEnabling...and the prompt people for input
... basically just problem statements
<Lauriat> The problem statements: Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle. Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle, but may have too many (details in the comment) Represent a reasonable set of challenges for the Silver guidelines to tackle, but are missing some key challenges (details in the comment)
<Lauriat> The design principles: Represent the direction that the Silver guidelines should go. Are missing some key aspect (details in the comments)
Shawn: Basically just trying to
prompt for feedback.
... We had planned to say "this is how things are different" in
the introduction. This is just high level draft, but wanted to
get feedback and affirmation that we're doing the right
thing.
... But I haven't heard back from Alastair, so I doubt we'll be
on the agenda in about an hour. Comment or questions?
Jennison: Ddi you get impression that working group is up to date or that they'd need more time to look at the problem statements before completing the survey?
Shawn: Not really, but this is
mostly to try and prompt for feedback. To get them in the mind
set of "this is what is happening, is it in the right
direction?"
... expecting people will say "it's super high level, it's
fine, let us know when there is more detail"
Jennison: So you're thinking it won't happen today, it'll be next week?
Shawn: Yeah...and that will fall
on Jeanne, because I'm going to be out. Maybe the Thursday
afterward I would be around for that.
... I will keep folks posted as that moves forward.
Shawn: Going to skip to 4
... Peter introduce yourself?
Peter: I'm a Sr. UX Consultant
from ?? for 5 years working with Alastair
... He's given me some documents to read up on. That's where I
am at the minute. Hello to everyone.
Shawn: Welcome. Charles, can you speak to Information Architecture project and where we are?
Charles: Looking for someone to
own it.
... found a Karen Shriver, she's intersted in volunteering.
Mike Crab sent out an email last night with a document having
reverse engineered current WCAG structure.
... perfectly illustrates point I made last Tuesday of having
an outline of current structure to test our new structure
... this is spot on what I was trying to describe and super
useful. I think it is essentially read to put against any
prototype outlines.
<mikeCrabb> Hope that the document was helpful?
Shawn: This is the outline of the current A/B structure document.
<Lauriat> Outline of Current AG Structure https://docs.google.com/document/d/12f_IsDYjklM-jN_wzl8IMVPU5INkeOFKVBUJgkeMHgA/edit
Shawn: It was super
helpful.
... for the identification of someone to own the project. Where
would they pick up first?
Charles: My understanding is we can solidify on the actual steps that were defined in information design tasks document. We had some reordering and feedback last Tuesday. Step one would be to get all of the volunteer effort assigned to some of these tasks.
<Lauriat> Information Design Tasks https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hharMRHLrqALWjcBp9M_F-uZPEh73wt8Bgoe47Yfnjo/edit
Charles: I think my next step is to ensure that the contact information is available
Shawn: No worries
Shawn: Okay, switching back to item 3
<Lauriat> Project plan https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10p-8-v-XqRllBaX_eTiXXvyyDYeft8GRiN3_11V3U0w/edit#gid=0&range=A39
Shawn: And that links
specifically to the IA project. We moved some of the tasks from
the planning document into this sheet. So we have a few things
noted as far as assigned to and current status.
... I think we had two categories of tasks here
Jennison: Is the cloude one completed?
Charles: only for the Success
Criteria themselves.
... not for techniques, etc.
Shawn: Thats in progress at
least.
... Mike, do you have an update on...
<Lauriat> Status of "Create half a dozen prototypes, and check that we have a structure that is sort of usable"
Shawn: that is also assigned to
Chaals and Jeanne
... neither of whom are on the call.
Charles: I still intend to update the original prototype from table 4 that more closely aligns to my original intent.
Shawn: I'll add you to the list.
<mikeCrabb> I was waiting on getting the IA in place to start making prototypes, will be taking the DB that I made earlier and then starting to mock up stuff with that in the next week
Shawn: Awesome, thank you
<mikeCrabb> Have also added in things to github in a pull request to look at getting a structure for people to add their own prototypes there
<mikeCrabb> https://github.com/w3c/silver/pull/15
Shawn: Great, thank you.
... Is there a quick overview?
Charles: I think the main objective is the folder structure so each prototype has unique folder, index.html, and README
Shawn: That makes sense.
Charles: Is Jeanne still working on action item to have a document for Github process?
Shawn: I believe so, don't know
status but she's been working with MichaelC
... similarly to how Mike Crabb did this PR, each person can
create a branch and work within that..instead of forking within
your own account and then pulling into master...which has its
own issues.
... Think this might be less conflicting
... I don't fully understand it, but I believe she is writing
it up along with the reasoning
... but I can email Jeanne to check in with that
... back to tasks
<Lauriat> Create a standard method of allowing others to cite and link to specific pieces of Silver.
Shawn: that I think is dependent
on some of the other prototyping...as far as the new
structure
... possibility it's not, but want to avoid situation other
working groups have where links break constantly because
they're generated
... don't know a lot about it, but some of the ARIA practices
it breaks or links fall off or go somewhere else. we want to
avoid that
Jennison: Is that a bug or feature? Would we have to pull someone technical or can we control it?
Shawn: If we use that system,
we'd need someone technical to fix it...but that would fix it
for everyone using it. Otherwise, we can do it manually.
... hopefully...
... We haven't really wanted to dictate a form or format.
... Mainly in order to allow flexibility that makes most sense
for prototype
... one may be just an outline
... one may be a full HTML page showing struture and
rendering
... could be a relational outline or diagram of type of
information we're going to store
... haven't specified it has to be in "this format" so people
can prototype however they need to
Alastair: It would be some kind of outline and rendering, but not necessarily in re-spect compatible format
thanks
<Lauriat> Create a standard method of citing and linking to other supporting documents (building on the WAI guideline)
Shawn: Building on the guideline itself, but linking externally. I'm not sure what the standard practice is.
Charles: One of the ideas I had
with that is that it's kind of a pseudo styleguide
... not just the method of link to external resources, but
identifying the type of resource. Ex. linking to W3
understanding document than different than research or public
resource
Shawn: I agree that seems
basically like a styleguide kind of thing
... this would probably be a good one to make sure to discuss
more explicitly with education outreach working group. I expect
they've hit this as much as anybody else.
<Lauriat> Establish rules for how search should work (what features) and what content, metadata, microformats and schema may be required
Shawn: next task
<Lauriat> Obtain a list of frequently used search terms
Shawn: Seems heavily related to
the next task..
... we can probably just do it now, just need to know who to
talk to to get that
Alastair: MichaelC would be a good starting point. He would know who to ask or he could have it
Shawn: I'll take that on.
... I'm going to reorder, since I think having the list of
search terms will help
Alastair: I would ask in a way that doesn't assume they have them.
<Lauriat> Identify terms that would require definitions in a glossary
Shawn: Can someone speak towards this task?
Charles: I think this overlaps
with simple language. There is an overall goal to write in
simple language. There are some outliers like terminology that
will be used throughout.
... so which terms need a definition and is that part of the
outline or a central glossary
Shawn: May also want to look into
how to have glossary.
... It would be good to do some usability testing on current
stuff to find stumbling points.
... when you hit a word it takes you out of context and into
the glossary. within the definition of that word there are
probably a few other words that are linked to
... along with the goals would include avoiding that
situation
Charles: Thats why I listed in Information Architecture
Shawn: Adding some wording to make that clear
Charles: A scenario could be "the sucess criteria around play/pause/stop for prercorded media" what does "prerecorded" mean?
<Lauriat> Drafted rewording: Identify terms that would require definitions in a glossary, and the structure/mechanism of accessing term definitions
Charles: if it can be provided in context, don't need to go down that rabbit hole
Shawn: That make sense?
Charles: That's good. Where are you writing these edits?
Shawn: Phase 3 project plan sheet where we have assignees and status
Charles: Ah, I was looking somewhere else
Shawn: And the last one...
<Lauriat> Create a list of names of disabilities and impairments
Shawn: we have it noted as
started
... as far as I know this one is on hold.
Charles: Should we decide we need it, I will take that task.
Jennison: Can someone give me a quick history of why we created that list?
Charles: In case we needed
categorization of them references from any success
criteria.
... trying to make SC outline that didn't outline a disability
but stated the problem. If a lower level of that outline needed
to reference category, that would exist somewhere
Jennison: Got it
Shawn: I definitely liked that
idea in table 4s prototype.
... I'd like to go back to the overall information architecture
of prototype activities and finding an owner.
... sounds like we have a bunch of semi related projects
... some can be in parallel, but not others
... and not that great of depth
Charles: Angela sent regrets, but at one point she was identified as interested in owning the project.
Jennison: I think Jeanne was still following up with Angela is that was still the case.
Shawn: What I'm thinking is what
we could do to handle this is have one person coordinating
creating half a dozen prototypes
... and other folks running and coordinating searching
activities like obtaining the list and establishing how it
should work
... as well as glossary aspects, that seems completely
independent of the others
... I don't think we have to have one person signed up to
coordinate all of them
Charles: That's probably safe to say. I do see overlap between a lot of them. The glossary is related to tag clouds because they identify more complex terms
Shawn: Thought they identify often used terms
Charles: Fair point
... I think one person managing/overseeing all of these is too
much
Shawn: I still think it's a big
task for one person to create half a dozen prototypes
... but still need coordination to avoid redundant
prototypes
Alastair: Anticipated it'd be split between a couple of people. Coordination between people doing prototypes would be good.
<mikeCrabb> Agreed - I'm happy to assist in coordinating prototypes and also to make some of them
Shawn: We could...for those
working on prototypes...we have the PR from Mike Crab of
structure where prototypes could live
... if we have people signed up to get notification of activity
in prototypes branches, we could use that for
coordination
... doesn't have to heavy handed coordination, just keep an eye
on what others are working on
... just so people can coordinate and be aware of each others
work.
Alastair: Sounds good
<mikeCrabb> Yup - a lot of it should just be a case of being on top of GitHub activity and making sure that everything there is working the way it's meant to.
Shawn: Kind of coming to conclusion...if Angela can't do it, maybe I just volunteered myself.
Charles: We also need to ensure
when that status is given that there's an end path.
... not just that the prototype is being worked on, but that
it's complete and ready to be tested
Shawn: Status shouldn't just be
"working on it"
... whoever is coordinating should be in this call to give
accurate status so we can see progress as it's going
through
... for that task with half a dozen prototypes...
... where should we document how these happen and what they
are
... don't know we actually have them listed in here
Charles: Do you want to scale the planning document with that level of detail or should it live elsewhere?
Shawn: Probably elsewhere
... some of it is getting into Github process.
... Projects under Github might be a good place to put
it?
... I think Chaals had some idea of "here be dragons" about
that though
... making a note to check with Jeanne and ask about project
tracking in Github. If nothing else we can have different
sheets in projects plans to track this...but not at the high
level of our current tracking sheet
... we need something to branch out the prototypes, listing
them, whose working, what's next, what's done, etc.
... will ask Jeanne about github possibility to know if it's a
bad idea then we can go from there
Charles: Where should I share contact information for all of the volunteers? Just collect it in a Google Doc?
Shawn: As long as only visible by
Silver folks...don't want contact information in the
public
... maybe in project plan to get working draft folder
Jemma: These are volunteers but working with Github repository. Can't we contact them via Github
Charles: My point is they're not
that far yet
... they've replied to an email about being interested. they're
not necessarily part of the group yet
Jemma: Got it. We are in recruiting stage; not contribution stage.
Shawn: Largely, we have folks
ready to go ,but that's part of "these are the projects and
people working on them" or "we don't have people working on
them"
... not clear which we've identified and which have volunteers
working on it or ready to work on it
... with that we have next steps. Much is emailing Jeanne
... and looking at volunteers and how we can allocate
them
... we have some open questions, like for glossary project need
to do some research how current one works...if it's great, then
great, but may need to investigate
... coordinating with education outreach working group...could
be assigned to whoever does prototype wrangling.
... I've assigned that to prototype wrangler
... anything else to bring up today?
Charles: Is TPAC held at a hotel in which we would benefit from staying at or is anywhere nearby appropriate?
<Lauriat> https://www.w3.org/2018/10/TPAC/Overview.html
Shawn: I'll send a link around to
it; haven't looked in detail
... anywhere nearby is probably fine, but I don't know what
that means
<Lauriat> trackbot, end meeting
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