See also: IRC log
<Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
<Detlev> sounds great!
<scribe> scribe: jon_avila
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/WCAG_2.1_Success_Criteria_Submission_Requirements
kw: were going to talk about m4 and m10 that patrick had finished more than others -- but since he can't make the call we will talk David's new one
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2
kw: related to page titles -- good to review in this meeting and finalize David's
dm: old problem that we didn't
have a solution to and now we do
... would be change of content -- different from change in
context
... want to notify users that there is a change
... need to notify blind users that changes occurred
... exceptions - if change immediately follows activating
element
... exception for a programmatic relatinoshnip
... borrowed a lot of language from current WCAG
... whether or not triggered by the user.
ja: shouldn't apply when page is actually refreshed
<Detlev> Jon: can the scope be extended to users who are not blind (cognitive, low vision)?
ja: would like this apply in way to help users with low vision and users with cognitive disabilities
dm: coga has one that is similar
and we could combine after this gets to the WG
... coga one calls for rapid feedback that indicates audio cues
must be cues
... coga has post user action confirmation
<Detlev> jon: SC ON input allows that users are notified beforehand
<Detlev> Jon: exception "unless the user has been advised...
alan: gave example of filter that might reset fields above current control
detlev: in case of reset button
there is an expectation. We need to take into context the
element -- unnecessary to have a description of what the reset
button does
... wasn't sure if new SC applies to content changes that are
user interactive or both?
both
detlev: sees them as different -- ARIA vs. user intiated are different as user has some expectation that something will happen. Maybe they should be different?
dm: have an exception for
controls that follow in the programmatic reading order. Could
be clear that this is the order that a screen reader follows
such as if you move the focus.
... adding focus managed by webpage
mj: going back to exception #2 -- way I read it is provide programmatic notification -- which seems like it is already covered in the title of the best practices
ja: may be difference between programmatic notification and programmatic relatinoship such as ARIA live versus aria-cotnrols
kw: thinking about a couple of
scenarios -- not sure if they fall under this. See with
usability studies such as loading indicator -- maybe short or
long depending on the users connection
... not just knowing something is loading but that something
finished loading
<david__> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
dm: another proposed SC
kw: got some comments about page
title and mobile specifically
... mobile apps dynamically change content and page title
doesn't update and difficult to know what the page content
is\
... 2.4.2 might be missing - but doesn't say that it has to be
unique or specific to the content on the page.
dm: doesn't require page title
change but helps with change
... topic or purpose is a very broad statement
<Detlev> Jon: title is preferable because users are sure to become aware of changes
kw: titles aren't as readily available on mobile
dm: is this close enough to
submit from this group?
... what about a baseball game -- if there were too many
updates it might be unusable
detlev: commenting on page loading, etc.
kw: same thing with timed tests with count down
ja: need to find a way to allow for some countdown or animation or other content, etc.
dm: may be able to characterize
exceptions into groups
... may need to create a threshold number
kw: maybe put placeholder in for now
dm: want to be testable in placeholder
kw: unless notification would significantly interupt
dm; notifications are more than x per minutes
detlev: couldn't make sense that this would hold up in all context such as games -- so times you may want the notifications and other you will not
dm: similar objections and use
cases that were outliers
... not forbudding --- authors can have mroe
... how do you know what x per minute is?
ja: does this allow people to do nothing if it occurs to frequently or is variable?
kw: take a look at two SC that were in the agenda -- would like to finalize them next. We need to keep finalize them.
dm: do we want to take a resolution on this proposed SC?
kw: can unless there is an objection.
dm: that we will take this over and submit as MATF with adjustments
kw: any objections?
<Alan_Smith> Alan +
kw: hearing none
RESOLUTION: will accept M15 Programmatic Notifications and submit to working group
dm: notification of busy signal we will take up on later date.
rrsagent make minutes
rrsagent end call
trackbot, end meeting
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