See also: IRC log
ChrisL: there was an HDR breakout last year so the question is, what's changed.
CSS colour now has wide gamut, higher bit depth, so next obvious thing is higher luminance range
and how does that relate to the Web, do we want HDR in Web pages? What about photographs? video?
Some confusion about HDR vs wide gamut
Maybe we need a document explaining why this is important & a big mass market thing
someone: interested in video content creation, laptops, mobile, with new display capabilities
FrankOlivier: many new devices coming, so we have an HDR-ready compositor in Windows already
but how do we take all the sRGB content on the Web, over 99% is sRGB, how to blend sRGB content and HDR content
We're trying to decide, whether to do a dual mode compositor, one mode that assumes gamma 2.2 blending
lrosenth: we are OK with the gamma but we need a space
[questions about linear blending]
[[Frank gives a demo of adjacent colours being blended: the non-linear versions as done by browsers darken the blends]
<ChrisL> math in a non-additive colorspace
lrosenth: I'm on the board of the ICC, so I reaches out to the author of ICC Max (ng ICC), and we'd like to do joint work going forward
we have 3 ftf meetings a year, next in San Diego in November, would welcome participation; devdeloper day beforehand has seminars about ICC Max.
We also have remote call-in.
Then there are teleconferences as needed by various working groups
<FrankOlivier> http://www.color.org/iccmax.xalter
ChrisL: current version of ICC assumes white is white paper, model is that screen is for proofing of print
<lrosenth> ICC DevCon - http://www.color.org/DevCon/devcon2016/index.xalter
lrosenth: ICC Max was designed to included other media, othe use cases, e.g. video, not just paper
<lrosenth> (and we can arrange “complimentary” tickets for W3C members)
Bert: if you don't have one of these monitors, what's the fallback?
someone: you can either provide a separate fallback...
ChrisL: you could do media queries
Florian: there's a parallel to that for brightness, there's multiple ways to do it and pick one
<lrosenth> ICCMax reference implementation - https://github.com/InternationalColorConsortium/RefIccMAX
[discussion of PQ, gamma curves that map from 0..1; new idea was to map to 0..1 with different shape, and map the 0...1 to display device]
<ChrisL> hybrid log-gamma in BT.2100
dolby: we have an interest in HDR in Dolby Vision, using PQ; as Mark mentioned, displays are becoming more capable
and Web moving to TV monitors which are more likely to have more colour capability than laptop
[discussion about bit depth; 10 bit is current; 12-bit may be used in cinema/video]
ChrisL: trying to move away from 0..255 to 0..1 in CSS colour
comcast: HDR has gone mainstream in TV, going down to low price points. TV makers often include an HTML 5 environment but most are porting the open souces codebases, which don't have HDR
There are some TVs that have codebases developers by browser companies, e.g. androidTV and firefoxOS, so likely that HDR will be driven by when it's common in non-HDR devices
ChrisL: yes, I think this will happen, and there needs to be guidance
floria: I've been involved in porting Opera to TV, and indeed no deep work is going to happen at the port, has to be upstream
<mikeassenti> Dolby Vision white paper FYI http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision/dolby-vision-white-paper.pdf
markw: we're looking at many years before tv platforms have anything other than sRGB [for non-4k video?]
liam: the blocker for the open source stuff right now tends to bt=e the toolkits, where the devs don't have access to calibration, to deep colour displayes etc
[q. about status of HDR in WebGL]
lrosenth: none of the common file formats on the Web support HDR today properly
<ChrisL> OpenRaster and JPEG-HDR? PNG at 16bit with extended chunk for transfer curve
<ChrisL> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDRi_(data_format)
[discussion of JPEG XR, jPEG 2K, other formats ]
<FrankOlivier> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XR
FrankOlivier: HEIF is another
<FrankOlivier> https://nokiatech.github.io/heif/examples.html
<mikeassenti> JPEG-XT https://jpeg.org/jpegxt/index.html
<FrankOlivier> https://nokiatech.github.io/heif/comparison.html
FrankOlivier: we'd like to see every p[art of OWP HDR-enabled. Images are the last holdout, comes down to a format/codec problem
We have to get to better compression
<ChrisL> need for a new, unencumberd, HDR, image format with good compression for delivery
Frank: all the main image formats are 20+ years old on the Web, time for a new one!
but it's astronomically diffcult
ChrisL: next steps....
general agreement there needs to be a backgrounds document giving guidence
e.g. doing linear-space compositing
<jihye> @liam i'm just on irc now
Also a need for a new image format to match today's hardware
sitting back isn't an option. Maybe spin up a community group
I'll proposed CGs for both things today
<cpn> I/me Chris Needham (BBC)
<MarkVickers> mark_vickers@comcast.com
<FrankOlivier> FrankOlivier franko@microsoft.com @frankolivier
<lrosenth> lrosenth@adobe.com
Liam: doc needs to target what Chris refers to as the "lightly interested developer"
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/dog /document / Succeeded: s/someone/markw/ No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: liam Inferring Scribes: liam WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Present: Chris_Lilley W3C markw Leonard_Rosenthol Adobe Liam Quin Bert Bos (W3C) Lea_Verou Invited_Expert_(CSS_WG) Mark_Watson watsonm@netflix.com Chris Needham mikeassenti Mike_Assenti mike.assenti@dolby.com Florian florian@rivoal.net Got date from IRC log name: 21 Sep 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/21-hdr-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]