Tzviya: George raised concerns about how aria-details will be used in real world
... I logged issue with APG

Rich: ARIA cannot dictate browser implementation
... AT will find it as long as it's in mappings

George: View of id-ref may disrupt reading from publisher perspective, so we would like guidance for implementation best practices

janina: We have made a commitment to make extended descriptions discoverable in APA
... We would like to explore this with Web Platforms (with Leonie)
... It will be intersting to hear how UAs will react to this

Rich: This could be a solution for reading systems, not browsers
... We had this discussion with the TAG already, and it lasted for years

George: If we implement this in RS, we have ARIA details, pointing to ID of details element, what do we do about hiding <details>?

Rich: Put something in the CSS that triggers on the attr selector, and display the summary only when user requests it

Ivan: In a sense, want to turn the aria reference into a link

<Rich> textarea:focus {

<Rich> background: pink;

<Rich> }

Ivan: I think this can be accomplished only with javascript

Rich: This can be done by Reading Systems

Ivan: This goes against what we've been saying about not needing specialized reading systems and shifting to standard UAs

Janina: APA will take up work with Web Platforms defining mechanism in HTML 5.x for recognizing extended description

Ivan: It might be helpful to broaden definition, not exclusively tie it to details
... The question is whether this is HTML feature or CSS feature

Janina: The identification is either HTML or CSS, the rendering is HTML

Ivan: if we have a selector that can express the bridge, that can be done without the core browser involvement

Janina: Goal is for native support in browsers.
... We need to support discovery and rendering

Tzviya: There is a long-term solution, but what am I supposed to do today?
... What am i supposed to do for extended description today?

Rich: Add Javascript to book or reading system

Tzviya: Not necessarily possible, which means that there is no solution for extended description today

Janina: We need to make the case that users of reading system require this functionality

Rich: Start with Readium. See if they can implement this.

George: In ARIA 1.1, it says "MUST not hide", please change to "SHOULD not hide"
... if the publisher wants to allow the AT to trigger the presentation, what is the best mechanism for author to indicate this?

Janina: Author should not be involved. It should be accomplished by AT

George: Configuration of RS tells you whether the extended desc is exposed automatically

Janina: I will provide the implementaion report regarding aria-details

George: Is the toggle mechanism only on details?

Rich: you can always use describedby, which will stringify

<janina> Longdesc Implementation Report is at:

<janina> http://w3c.github.io/test-results/html-longdesc/cr-report.html

Rich: What do you want to tell authors to do?

Tzviya: Ideally, authors should not touch anything

George: there is also the use case of defaulting to displaying all extended description

Tzviya: I will add that to the APG issue https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/70

<Rich> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-details

Rich: will change "MAY" to "SHOULD"
... will put out a CfC

Janina: If we are going to try get browser support, we need to explain the need for not-sighted readers to access this

Update about TAG meeting

Rich: Meeting was more about updates
... I don't think there will be an issue going forward
... It was more about education. We will meet again at TPAC.

Tzviya: We had talked about going to CR for DPUB-ARIA until we had a sense of extensibility. Thoughts?

Rich: discussion of Apple mappings and whether Safari accesses the DOM

Ivan: If the whole extensibility conversation falls over, then we will run into problems

Rich: I don't think we will have problems with extensibility
... and we don't want to have to be so concerened with mappings

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/extended solution/extended description/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: tzviya
Inferring Scribes: tzviya
Present: George_Kerscher Janina Rich MichaelC Ivan
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2016Aug/0000.html
Got date from IRC log name: 04 Aug 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/08/04-dpub-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: