See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: nikos
<scribe> scribenick: nikos
nikos: There was a github isse
about tidying this text up
... Dirk pointed out that we may have removed this
feature
... I looked into the history
... the latest resolution I could find was 2013 where we
resolved to remove the feature
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/122
scribe: Erik remembers discussion
after that where we decided to keep the feature
... I don't mind putting it back in, won't be too much editing
work
... also think it wouldn't be too bad to just spec current
browser behaviour
... in terms of getting SVG 2 to CR
... then look at web components and custom elements and what to
do with unknown elements later
Tav: why do we want unknown elements to act as g?
AmeliaBR: the way unknown markup
is treated in html is that it's just transparent
... and you continue with child content
... in svg the only element that behaves like that is g
... it's useful because you can be a little more forward
focused, if there's additional new markup that the current ua
doesn't recognise
... it can find the parts it does recognise
... and generally try to make more robust features that could
potentially be extended to custom elements
Tav: if I have an unkonwn element
with a transform
... it would act like g with a transform?
AmeliaBR: yes
... and global attributes and styles could be applied
... I know we discussed this recently because we were
discussing implementation details
Tav: has anyone implement this?
nikos: I've tested Chrome, Safari, and FireFox and they don't render and use the SVGElement interface
Tav: From our point of view, if
you have unknown elements, I don't think we would want to deal
with them
... we would have to parse it - say it's not a g but acts like
a g
... we would have to make sure we output as it originally
was
nikos: what were the obvious problems with the html parser?
AmeliaBR: don't think they're unsurmountable, but if it gets to an element that isn't svg it'll insert a close tag
shepazu: My suggestion is if it's
a roughly equal amount of work either way, is to add it to the
spec, mark it at risk
... the impact is pretty low one way or the other
... I feel like if we add it to the spec and it gets dropped,
it's not a tragedy
... gives us a chance to get feedback from other people
... turns out if it doesn't get implemented then we drop it
nikos: I'm happy with that
Tav: I'm indifferent, don't think we'd implement in the near future
nikos: ChrisL had raised concerns that if someone implemented an extension but put their custom elements in the svg namespace, then content could break
AmeliaBR: like replicate for
instance
... might not hurt in that case, but there's cases where we
could break content
shepazu: think that's pretty theoretical
AmeliaBR: yeah, we don't have huge frameworks like html
nikos: Ok, lets add it back in, do the small edits that are needed and see what happens to it in CR
AmeliaBR: Don't see it as a feature that's at risk, but the error handling behaviour is different
RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will treat unknown elements as g for the purposes of rendering, and they will use the SVGUnknownElement interface
Tav: make sure to mark it at risk
https://rawgit.com/nikosandronikos/svg2-cr-issues/master/svg2-cr-issues.html
<scribe> ACTION: Nikos to look at github issue #103 on Monday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3846 - Look at github issue #103 on monday [on Nikos Andronikos - due 2016-06-16].
https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/65
Tav: This is basically about what breaks ligatures
AmeliaBR: there was discussion on
www-style about this
... they had some related questions
... about line breaks and forced line breaks
Tav: my view is that we pass a
block of text to css to layout, and we need to follow css rules
for breaking ligatures at that point
... then we come back and do dx, dy, and rotate, and I don't
think we should break ligatures at that point
... if you do want to break ligatures, we have
font-variant-ligatures that can be used to break ligatures
explicitly
nikos: I'm not an expert in that
area, but sounds reasonable to me
... is there anyone specific you'd like input from?
Tav: there was some discussion when one font has ligatures and one doesn't, if you substitute and get ligatures there might be problems
AmeliaBR: sensible point is to
allow them and author can turn them off if appropriate
... we can't judge what looks good so it has to be down to an
author on that
RESOLUTION: We will keep SVG 1.1 behaviour wrt to ligatures allowed on text on a path
Tav: rotate will apply to the glyph, not to individual characters
AmeliaBR: no matter how large and
awkward that is
... we can treat this as authoring advice
Tav: I'll add a note explaining
how to turn them off
... Also about lengthAdjust=spacing
... if you put a non zero space it breaks ligatures
AmeliaBR: that's a css rule
Tav: what about textLength
?
... e.g. textLength="..." lengthAdjust="spacing
AmeliaBR: I would suggest to leave it simple
RESOLUTION: lengthAdjust=spacing will not break ligatures. Ligatures must be explicitly broken.
AmeliaBR: sometimes textLength will have negligible affect, but breaking ligatures will have a much larger effect on the text length
<AmeliaBR> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/102
AmeliaBR: jarek created issue
that elements are a bit arbitrary about whetehr they allow
title and desc
... it's part of a larger issue of inconsistency in the
spec
... want to see if people agree that we allow it pretty much
everywhere
... even for pattern and stuff that is not accessible to a
screen reader
... there is a theoretical accessible use where you can use non
rendered elements as part of a description of a shape
... I've got an example of that
... or it can be general metadata
... I don't see a logical reason to prohibit that
... current status in SVG 1.1 is somewhat random
nikos: I'm ok with that, obviously switch can't have it. Anything else?
AmeliaBR: that's the only one I
have an issue with
... html elements borrowed from html namespace wouldn't have
them
RESOLUTION: title and desc can be a child of any svg namespaced element except switch
https://rawgit.com/nikosandronikos/svg2-cr-issues/master/svg2-cr-issues.html
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/piont/point/ Found Scribe: nikos Inferring ScribeNick: nikos Found ScribeNick: nikos Present: nikos Tav AmeliaBR shepazu stakagi Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Jun/0009.html Found Date: 09 Jun 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/09-svg-minutes.html People with action items: nikos[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]