Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

<scribe> agenda: this

<joanie> scribe: joanie

ACTION-2043 (Joseph/Cynthia) Review UIA mapping of role="status".

<clown> action-2043?

<trackbot> action-2043 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Modify UIA mapping of role="status" -- due 2016-03-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2043

JS: This is a Cynthia-related action.
... I modified the mapping of role="status".

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-status

RS: Did she want it to be status bar?

JS: No.
... She has it as a group, with a localized role of status.

RS: Will that cause ATs to announce whenever there are changes?

JS: It has a live setting of polite.

RS: That should be ok then.

JS: I just want Cynthia to review.

ACTION-2055 (All) Mappings for new values of aria-haspopup -- create actions.

JS: This is a mechanical one.

<clown> issue-1025?

<trackbot> issue-1025 -- Drive mappings of the new enumerated type values for aria-haspopup -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1025

JS: Also, I killed this action and made it an issue.
... We need people to consider the mappings for aria-haspopup.
... Because now it will be a token list.
... So all the platforms will need to adjust their mappings.

RS: All the OSes have an attribute for popups, right?

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue

JS: The link above is for True

RS: So you have the popup.

JS: If it's on a push button, you change the role.

RS: (Reading)

JS: AXShowMenu and AXPressed make sense.
... Looking at this now, I have a feeling we won't get this into 1.1.
... AXAPI says it's a menu.

BG: Wasn't the original proposal to create a separate attribute, like aria-popuptype.
... And this would be interpretable by the ATs.
... And then you don't have to redesign aria-haspopup.

JS: That would then need to be taken to the Thursday meeting.

RS: (Points out cases where it is not expanded)

JS: During the meeting, Joanie proposed keeping the state exposure as-is and then expose the type via object attribute.

BG: Say you had an edit field, and it was a combobox. But it also popped up a menu when you right-click.

<Rich> aria-garaventa

BG: How can we expose both?

JS: Combo box has a list. And it has a menu too (in this example).

RS: This should not be the expand/collapse state.

JS: (Reads from spec)

RS: You want to know what it's going to.
... So you need something to tell you if the popup will be a dialog, tree, grid, etc.
... Did we include list?

JS: The classic definition of a combo box is a list of options.
... So I think it's been that way since 1.0.
... In 1.1 we're adding all the other types.

BG: Currently, haspopup pops up a menu.

RS: I think that's for a drop menu.

BG: The state is implicitly true for the combobox role.

RS: When it's applied to a button, it's always a menu. Today.

BG: It will be interesting if they put aria-haspopup on a button with a type of dialog.
... Then it's not a menubutton.
... This will need to be addressed.

JS: Someone will need to take an action.

RS: You can assign this to me to talk to Alex.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue

RS: If you look at the above, you'll see IA2 has a buttonmenu role when it's on a push button.

<clown> ACTION: Rich to coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2056 - Coordinate the mappings for the various aapis of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-05-03].

<clown> action-2056?

<trackbot> action-2056 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Coordinate the mappings for the various aapis of the enumerated aria-haspopup values . -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056

JD: You could potentially do in IA2 what is proposed for ATK/AT-SPI2.

RS: A button menu could potentially popup a tree.
... I think Matt is going to have to address that.
... What does it mean if you have a button that opens a dialog box?

JS: Like "Save as..."
... But that's different from a button with a down-pointing triangle.

RS: We need to say that, for true and false, what do we say about haspopup for other popup types.

JS: Unless... I can see the AT not caring if the button became a button menu. They might just want to know what will pop up.
... You have seven days to do this, Rich. Would you like more time?

RS: Yes.
... Give me three weeks.
... How are you doing this?
... Should I create a branch?

JS: Yes.
... And either give me a pull request or ask me to merge it in.

ACTION-1569 (Jason/Joseph) Section that describes AAPI differences -- done?

<clown> action-1569?

<trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569

JS: There's a section in the core mapping written by Jason and Cynthia.
... I've got confirmation from Cynthia.
... I'm waiting to hear back from Jason.
... We'll leave this one open.

ACTION-1409 (Joanie) Gnome bugzilla re: group position for ATK/AT-SPI.

<clown> action-1409?

<trackbot> action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2016-04-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409

JS: I thought we dealt with this last week.
... Joanie needs to add new API to ATK/AT-SPI2.

<clown> scribenick: clown

RS: Is it done?

JD: No it's not done.
... We need to create a new ATK interface, and then we can add all sorts of new information.

RS: In the 1.1 timeframe?

JD: I was hoping to, but I'm busy with other things.
... So, it's not quite done yet.
... Even though not ideal, we are already exposing setsize, etc. via object attributes.
... So if the new interface is not done, we stay with the 1.0 implementation, and we don't change core.
... If it is done, then we can change core.
... We are not really blocking anything.
... But, I hope to get the new interface done in the 1.1 timeframe.

JS: I would like to change the due date of the action so it doesn't keep coming up.

JD But I would like to be reminded more frequently.

JS: So leave the due date the way it is?

JD: But, we don't have to discuss it at length every meeting; just check in on the status.

<joanie> scribe: joanie

ACTION-2022/ACTION-1668 (All) Add IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2. Latest developments, including mapping of role="form".

<clown> action-2022

<trackbot> action-2022 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Followup with alex about ia2 discussion re: adding a landmark role, similar to atk -- due 2016-02-23 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2022

<clown> action-1688?

<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1688 does not exist.

JS: I think action-2022 is done.

<clown> action-1668?

<trackbot> action-1668 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668

JS: This is the new IA2 role for landmark.
... This was done last week.
... One of the things which came up was what to do about role="form".

RS: I answered Alex.

JS: And the decision was to change the mapping to ROLE_LANDMARK.

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0197.html

JS: And I was going to make a similar change to ATK.
... But then Bryan sent the email (at the URL above)

BG: The group thought it would be good to take a poll.

RS: What Freedom Scientific said is that they have to handle the old case and the new case.
... But they said there was no problem.
... I've not yet talked to Jamie, but he didn't have problems with the landmark role.

BG: Is there any way to make it act like a named region?
... So it's not in the landmarks list unless it has a name.

JS: The WebAim group is saying if the form has a name, it is a landmark; but if it doesn't, then it's not.

RS: I don't agree with that.

JS: And I think that belongs in the spec.

BG: This was originally proposed by Steve Faulkner and then supported by Léonie and Birkir.
... It was related to .NET pages.
... Also, on some pages, you'll get a form around one button.

RS: But that's just bad coding practices.

BG: I don't have a problem exposing it as landmark. But how will ATs present it?

RS: I don't think we should change things because of some less-than-ideal practices.

BG: I've seen this on Facebook, where a form contains the logout button -- and only the logout button.

<clown> <div role="search">

<clown> <form>

<clown> ...

<clown> </form>

<clown> </div>

JS: I found another example in this. From Tim.
... Markup is above.
... You only want the search in the case above to be the landmark; not the form inside it.
... So you'd have two landmarks in virtually the same place.

RS: Why not do <form role="search">.... ?

JS: You can reply to him.

BG: They can choose to implement it however they want.
... The irony is that if you put role="form" on something, JAWS (at least) tells you the beginning and ending of the form. But this doesn't happen with the "form" element.

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Apr/0197.html

RS: Can you respond to the WebAim people that <form role="search"> is preferable?

BG: The problem I see in exposing unnamed forms is legacy content.

JD: I think Bryan is right.

<clown> scribenick: clown

JD: My understanding is the role="form" is always a landmark, with or without a name.
... But the <form> element is a landmark only if it has a name.

RS: The form element is someone else's problem.

JD: Wasn't the question for webaim about the form element?

BG: It was about both.

RS: the issue around the <form> element is not ARIA's problem.

https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form

<joanie> scribe: joanie

RS: I think you'll have to say if it has a label, use the ARIA mapping.
... But if it doesn't have a label, then the form element should be mapped as a form, but not a landmark.

JS: (Confirms the above)
... So I can change the mappings for ATK/AT-SPI2 for role="form".

RS: I'll file a bug for Steve regarding the form element and HTML AAM.

<clown> github.com/w3c/aria

JS: I will finish the changes in our spec.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-banner

JS: Right now, on AXAPI the form role is mapped as a group.

<clown> ACTION: Joanie to suggest that AXAPI mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the AXSubrole. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2057 - Suggest that axapi mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the axsubrole. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-05-03].

<clown> action-2057?

<trackbot> action-2057 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Suggest that axapi mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the axsubrole. -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2057

JS: But other landmarks are mapped as landmark (example banner).

JD: Looking quickly at the code, I'm not seeing a form landmark in WebKit, but I think there should be one.

JS: I'll create an action for you.

JD: Thanks!

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Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtffeger
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtffeger
Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly
Found Date: 26 Apr 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: joanie rich

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