<scribe> scribe: clapierre

title: Accessibility DPUB Task Force Weekly Meeting

http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/

Tzviya: ARIA 1.1 at the end of January and we need to reference that since it should have a solution to ARIA-describedAt

Deborah: all we are saying about Diagrammar, and why the W3C needs to be aware of it.
... , I will word smith this a little more
... , there is work being done outside the W3C

Tzviya: avoid using longdescription

Deborah: EPUB, is the PWP/ IDPF handing off work to the W3C?

<dkaplan3> s/Deborah: EPUB, is the PWP/ IDPF handing off work to the W3C?//

George: with ARIA 1.1 Candidate Recommendation. at end of Jan. when will this document come out?

We should have our note after the baltimore meetings. We may find more people interested in this to review/contribute, because of the increased interest in EPUB 3.1 and Open Web Platform.

<tzviya> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/project

Tzviya: we originally planned to publish this in Dec. so we don't want this to drag on indefinitely.

ARIA meets on Thursdays.

There will be a discussion, what we will do with the DPUB ARIA roles

What do we want to want to say about Assessments.

Deborah: what is the official statement on who is doing this work. Who are we allowed to say is publicly working on it. Ie. Timed tests and accessibility needs to be able to turn off timing or lengthen it etc…

Tzviya: maybe we can add this to the Future work section.

Mia: I can write a paragraph on this.

Deborah: if Mark gets back to us we can add this as well.

George: there are others working on this as well.

Tzviya: maybe we should say ETS since Jason White has worked on this a lot either.

Deborah: Ask ETS: addressing the problem of accessibility in assessments. We know you are working on it. do you have a 2 sentence elevator pitch what ETS is doing in this space.

Mia: I will reach out to some others as well so we can mention multiple groups working on this issue.

Tzviya: will read over the EPUB section and make improvements, but would like others input on this.

Mia: Kath and I want to change some CSS, and also about in-page navigation

We need a way on a page of text how to get half way down the page. We were thinking of adding that as a need.

Tzviya: I agree but cautious of using the word page.

Kathy: if it is referencing the printed page

Tzviya: more and more are becoming web only and not have a physical print.

Mia: we can't completely separate ourselves there are still the correlation between hard copy and web page.
... fragment identifier and navigation is how we should maybe should address this.

Kathy: we do use page in mobile but its an abstract.

George: we will continue to have this issue. we have 12 million books in hasi trust but they are still based on this legacy stuff. won't this live with use forever…. for a long time.

Tzviya: I agree how to navigate to 50% of the content, if we just talk about pages this won't resonate with developers.

George: isn't it eaiser to identify begining of text.

Mia: if your looking for a particular paragraph and its half way down the screen… being able a way to quickly get there, could mean scrolling a lot on a tiny screen. Being able to say 50% of this content how do I get there.

George: goto next block item (paragraph) jaws Ctrl Down Arrow. But that function doesn't exist in Voice Over So IOS systems fail that what is simple to do in JAWS.

Tzivya: how does Jaws do that?

George: maybe 2 hard line breaks or maybe paragraph marker.

Tzviya: is this something ARIA already does this for us and that Some AT doesn;t implement this correctly.

George: navigating by blocks would help.

Tzviya: would you like the paragraph in ARIA maybe this is a solved problem?

Mia: maybe Kathy and I need to see if this is already solved.

Kathy: I could talk to patrick to see whats possible lets ask for what we want and get it in front of a developer.

Tzviya: I think George and are saying that this is probably already solved.

<tzviya> if http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-posinset could be applied to <p>, I think we would have a solution

Mia: but you don't know if this page has 5 paragraphs or 20. So you still won't be able to position yourself 50% way down the page.

<Livio> hello

George: if you have the paragraph which starts with these 3 words. I don't know of any other way to get there other than by blocks.

Tzviya: I don't think this is an issue with Accessibility and Human Error, it will take anyone some time to get to half way down the page and get exactly to the place the other is trying to get you to.

Mia: this isn't just an accessibility thing but has wider implications

Tzviya: I think this should be in the future work section. We need to get this published.

George: this is very good and corresponds to the print page issue. then they can search go down by chunks, scroll etc… but at least you get them to the correct page is paramount.

Mia: this is why I wanted to talk about this. I am fine with incremental navigation for future work. And we just need to reference the work on page navigation already being worked on.

Kathy: we are numbering the page list author can put in a page list so it matches the printed book. If they don't have a page list we author one, and based on an algorithm based on average style, but it won't be perfect.

George: if you know the imprint page if 500 and count # of characters / 500 that would be a start.

Kathy: when the book is ingested and divides it up into pages but if the user changes font sizes things get messy, unless the author puts in page #'s then its absolute.

Tzviya: its not unique that page numbers are based on page lists.

<tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/wcag/wcag20/extensions/requirements.html

Mia: Just clarifying the work with CSS and accessibility need to leverage that… I will check this and add anything needed.

<tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/wcag/wcag20/extensions/requirements.html

Tzviya: based on this extensions we may be asked to write it.

George: we may be asked to write a module for DPUB. This is just a working draft.
... this would be inside a Working Group.

Tzviya: we would have to work with WCAG WG.

George: we could have a draft of this NOTE for the Feb. meeting in Baltimore. IDPF/Daisy / Industry wide meeting.

Tzviya: there has been very little buzz about this meeting if its so important.

Geroge: I am waiting for authorization to make the press releases.

Hoping in next week to see announcements.

You know about the Emmy right?

<livio_> good to listen

All: Yes

Tzviya: This is in CES, but usually not televised.

Back to timeline. Real working Draft for Feb, this means we need to have this Note in good shape by end of January. Monday we will talk about DPUB Face to Face

George: whats the timeframe?

Tzviya: tacking DPUB F2F onto IDPF in Chicago is an option

We need to have an industry wide calendar to coordinate all these meetings

Charles: here are the ACTION items: Charles to get ETS to come up with some verbiage about their work on assessments

Mia to reach out to another group she knows who is working in this area as well and will move the Assessments Appendix down into Future work section.

Mia and Kathy to update the CSS and Page Navigation sections

Tzviya to review and update the EPUB section in the appendix

Deborah to update the Diagrammar section

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Present: Bill_Kasdorf tzviya clappiere george deborah Kathy Mia

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