See also: IRC log
<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C ARIA Working Group
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Dec/0134.html
<MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
<jemma> can someone copy webex meeting link here?
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m5d67b552441a72bd1f52d696ad273d2e
<jemma> thanks Michiel
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Dec/0134.html
RS: problem with link
... it can't be a role, it has to be an attribute
... you still want to know it's a link
... if it's detail/summary you want to know it is a
detail/summary
JS: things could be external
CS: is this a whole new
thing?
... longdesc isn't stringyfied
... how do I link to external sources on the API level?
RS: longdesc applies directly to
an element
... What if the link is elsewhere in the document?
... What if we use details/summary?
... You could reference the details element
... you have an object that reveals the content
... I don't know if it'll work the same as longdesc
... I'm guessing AT can go in and activate the longdesc?
CS: This is not final, but I've
been thinking of creating a hyperlink pattern.
... So the element could be whatever it is, but act like a
hyperlink
JS: that could still be internal
CS: It's going to be hard enough
to implement one mechanism
... let alone two
RS: could it be just
describedat?
... You don't want to stringify
JS: There is nothing in the HTML spec that limits it to description
CS: Don't think we need something special
GK: Information on another server can be updated.
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask if the role could be applied to what the link points to?
GK: We have description, simplified description, 3d printer item, each has human readable description. And a way to select it.
TS: I have alt text, and a video
description, are we talking about described by?
... We can't just invent a new role
CS: I got two places I can put something, so there can be only two things.
<Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask if the plan is to use describedby w changes
RS: you can have a lot of stuff
inside of details if you so choose.
... We need a navigation mechanism to get to the
description.
... We need to say that describedby will stringify the
content.
... We don't want it to be stringified whatever the
mechanism
... You can put a description in a string, or a
relationship.
... We need to tell the UA not to stringify it
JS: What is the common use case? Remote or current document?
CS: Use longdesc
JS: That is only for images
NOTICE: 5 minutes left for this topic
JS: Mozilla loads the contents of
the link?
... AT will tell you there is a longdesc available
RS: If you point to
details/summary, should provide navigation to it
... We need something to indicate that we don't stringify and
that it just points at something
... There is two ways to represent this visually
... You have a link to a site
... or a details/summary
... the latter can include about anything
... the user that doesn't see needs to know that there is a
describedby
NOTICE: We're through the discussion time for this topic
<mck> Matt King joined on phone
<ShaneM> The target should be a URI
<ShaneM> an IDREF is just a degenerate case of a URI
TS: Can't go back to DPUB with this
JS: We're not deciding today.
<clown> Suggested reading: http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#Descriptions_external
@clown any reason that can't be used?
<clown> MichielBijl: no, since it has been a recommended "best practice" for a while.
<clown> at least, I don't see why it couldn't be used.
Than what the hell are we discussing?
* long discussion about longdesc *
<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-practices/#Descriptions_external
CS: that is nice, you don't have
to do anything special
... AT should set up something that indicates it points at a
link
<clown> "It is not good practice to use the above pattern when the describing element—the <a> tag with @id='longdesc1'—is http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/terms#def_hidden, since there is no way for a user to navigate to and activate the link. Use the technique only when the description is not hidden. "
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to point out historical use of aria-desribedby in ARIA best practices.
You can tab to hidden links the same way we use skip links today.
I do want to stress that I agree this should be visible to everybody
What kind of books are we talking about? E-books right? People don't expect the same as with a paper book right? Do they mind extra information? Do they mind the links?
RS: Can we drop describedat?
JS: Not until we have a replacement
<ShaneM> Should flow it out using PlantUML
<ShaneM> bad question: what happens when a describedby points to an IDREF that is NOT a well-defined region?
<MichaelC> ARIA wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/
<janina> scribe: janina
action-1736?
<trackbot> action-1736 -- Michiel Bijl to Create an attribute to indicate a button is the primary button -- due 2015-12-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1736
rs: No problem by me, just one
more thing to test.
... Any objections?
mk: We agreed last week, just wanted to make sue Rich was on board.
RESOLUTION: Move Issue-624 to ARIA-2.0
rs: How do we avoid clashing ...
mc: Probably we need to generate
most tests manually, regretably
... Looking for exit criteria ...
<MichaelC> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html
mc: This is the Status statement for the CR publication of 1.1, when we get to that point
[mc walking through status section]
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd
mc: Believe grid tests can come
over from 1.0
... then apply to role=table
... plus cross referencing grid and table ...
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/
mc: Noting Test Harness training
is Friday at 1PM Boston
... Believe ARIA tests will all come under Core-AAM 1.1
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases?testsuite_id=4
<MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/testharness/testcases/add?testsuite_id=4
mc: Most important are testable
statement and expected result. Can be broken out by OS
... Will be a base URI for all test files
<MichaelC> Base for all test files: https://github.com/w3c/aria/tree/master/testfiles/1.1
mc: Noting all tests are migrated
away from hg
... Expect tests will be on github, but don't have to be
rs: so git pull will get all tests?
mc yes
rs: Subdirectories?
mc: Think people creating should organize as they see fit
<MichaelC> https://github.com/w3c/aria/tree/master/testfiles/1.0
mc: Only point of directories is to group related tests
rs: Will you migrate testable statements?
mc: Can. Need to know which
... Expect most will be new. We don't need to redo 1.0 tests,
only new stuff
... So will migrated on an "as needed" basis
rs: Who's working the next few weeks? Anyone?
fe: Me
ts: Also me
clown: not me
... no commitment--but partially tracking
... grid test files were incorect in 1.0
mk: Especially as we're adding table and mixed grid/table
cs: Maybe similar to tests I put up for table with children
rs: 2 rows and 2 columns as a minimum?
clown: 3x3 better
mc yes, 3x3
mc: to cover not first or last
cs: Need to think about where grid could break and test for that
clown: same with table
cs: Also interaction between html
table and aria table
... we have this problem with lists, logical to believe it will
happen with table
mc: Found a few issues closed but
with open actions
... May be additional croft
... Can people look at their own and close things we don't need
to migrate?
... Also pftracker is member only, but new tracker will be
public
... We need to know if anything shouldn't migrate for that
reason
rs: but don't touch the tracker otherwise?
mc: No, ok to use
... Issues will begin somewhere around 2k
<MichaelC> ARIA Tracker
<MichaelC> APA Tracker
mc: All items will have same
id
... including action numbers
<MichaelC> SVG A11Y TF Tracker
mc: Bindings to irc will change in January
e-eggnog all around ...
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/pint/point/ Succeeded: s/brokinn/broken/ Found Scribe: MichielBijl Inferring ScribeNick: MichielBijl Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Scribes: MichielBijl, janina ScribeNicks: MichielBijl, janina Default Present: janina, Michiel_Bijl, TzviyaSiegman, fesch, Rich, MichielBijl, MichaelC, George_Kerscher, JemmaJaEunKU, ShaneM, LiamQuin Present: George_Kerscher JemmaJaEunKU LiamQuin MichaelC MichielBijl Rich ShaneM TzviyaSiegman fesch janina Regrets: BryanGaraventa JonGunderson LeonieWatson JoanmarieDiggs Found Date: 17 Dec 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/12/17-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]