<jamesn> scribe: jamesn

<jongund> I will be on vacation

<jemma> I am available

<MichielBijl> +1

discussing whether to meet on 21 Dec

not sure yet... decide next week

Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status

MK: mark checkbox done?

JK: yes

<jemma> yes

<annabbott> Ann and Jon G did not meet yet about landmarks.

JN: do we need an aria activedescendent example for radio?

MK: dont think we do

JG: we will take that off the list

MK: had question on landmarks - ready for agenda next week?

JG: hopefully will have menu and radio group
... should be ready for simple menu next week

MK: will add to my notes for the agenda for radio group and possibly menu

<Ann and Jon disuss availability to meet about landmarks)

JK: 2 questions
... button and links needs template update
... Where are we on the templatye discussion

MB: the current template has too much information and is too complex

MK: important as we would like to settle on 1 form of the template
... might need 2 forms
... by time publish would like all examples to follow the same pattern

MB: important to get stuff done but would like that the template is simjpler

MK: we are at 4 examples. would like to get the template sorted before too many more examples done
... need more time to prepare for this. need to make proposals.

<jemma> template discussion on the second week of Janurary sounds good.

MK: best way to demo is with working examples
... plan for early january discussion
... Ian wanted us to focus on how the code was written

JN: that is a different discussion

Jemma's checkbox example pull request

MK: what was mertged was as discussed last week with a few minor changes
... MB got commit permission on master

Review APG section 2.11 Dialog (Non-Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_nonmodal

MK: objective is to look at it to see what needs to be changed etc.

JN: no way to move to/from the dialog on touch with the ipad
... dont think F6 would work on ios even when you have a BT keyboard
... external keyboard support is really funky on iOS
... getting into the non-modal dialog can be very problematic

MK: the only solution can come up with is adding an element to move to the dialog

JN: and that is what we do

MK: aria-flowto could be used for this but only supported in JAWS with FF

<annabbott> Add to bug: method to move focus between non-modal and original page. Include context to support this use case.

MK: dont like definition for non-modal

<annabbott> MK: doesn't like "is designed to interrupt"

<annabbott> MK: and other editorial changes

<annabbott> MK: questions ESCAPE in non-modal dialogs

<annabbott> James: thinks it reasonable. May be in addition to CLOSE.

<annabbott> MK: doesn't think it needs to be closed. In a side panel, would be useful to work within that context.

<annabbott> James: what is difference between non-modal dialog and a tooltip?

<annabbott> Tooltip doesn't require interaction and be purely informational.

<annabbott> MK: can be accomplished with modal and non-modal, so don't need Tooltip dialog

<annabbott> Birkir: focus doesn't move into tooltip, but focus does move into dialog

<annabbott> MK: maybe should be hover help instead of tooltip dialog.

<jemma> Can anyone sum up what the biggest difference between modal and non -modal?

<annabbott> MK: all agree that ENTER submits any data gathered in the dialog should be removed

<annabbott> MK: do we need note about mouse usage?

<annabbott> James: don't think it is needed.

<annabbott> MK: recommends deleting mouse usage bullet

<annabbott> MK: recommends deleting bullet about opeining in separate browser window

<annabbott> All agree

<annabbott> James: moving dialog is optional

<annabbott> MK: list kbd commands to move dialog?

<annabbott> MK: include example to move dialog

<MichielBijl> @jemma: I think it's that the non-modal is moveable?

<annabbott> James: have menu to invoke move/resize

<jemma> have you seen this? https://accessibility.oit.ncsu.edu/training/aria/modal-window/

<annabbott> MK: will that pattern be referenced more more than one?

<annabbott> Birkir: date picker and/or media player

<annabbott> MK: make separate pattern for move/resize for both dialog types

<annabbott> James: not sure column resize fits pattern

<annabbott> MK: need to specifically address grid/colum resize issue

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29325

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29326

<mck> • Authors should take care when using Enter to trigger default actions since Enter might be connected to and trigger some other user interface element, or it might trigger the focused element. Authors should ensure that Enter activates only the widget they intend.

<annabbott> MK: add to "Common mistakes", if one is created.

<annabbott> MK: or add to Examples

<annabbott> No objection to removing that Note

<annabbott> MK: proposes to rename tooltip dialog to Hover dialog

<annabbott> James: kbd handling as is, is nonsense

<annabbott> James: tooltip cannot contain anything that gets focus

<annabbott> MK: tooltip is not for anything with interactive content

<annabbott> MK: proposal is to delete Tooltip dialog section

<MichielBijl> http://getbootstrap.com/javascript/#tooltips

<MichielBijl> Wrong one

<MichielBijl> http://getbootstrap.com/javascript/#popovers

how is that modal?

<annabbott> MK: no concensus

http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/jet/uiComponents-popup-customTail.html

<annabbott> MK: needs to be renamed Dialog (Hover or popup context help)

not really a tooltip - more a popup which can contain links

<annabbott> MK: will take on re-writing that section

<jemma> sounds good

<annabbott> MK: will gut and start over

https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29327

for tooltips take a look at http://www.oracle.com/webfolder/technetwork/jet/uiComponents-helpHintsMessaging-multipleMessages.html and click on (for example Warning and info buttons then tab to fields)

<annabbott> Michiel: menu needs 'action within application' statement added

<annabbott> MK: menu should not be a list of links

<annabbott> To be addressed on a later call

do you want to push the minutes?

<MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/102

<annabbott> No, James - I'd rather you did that.

<scribe> scribeNick: annabbott

James - will you push the mnutes?

I still can't figure out how you guys get italics text in IRC

<jamesn> scribe: annabbott

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/MB/MK/
Succeeded: s/navigation within/action within/
Found Scribe: jamesn
Inferring ScribeNick: jamesn
Found ScribeNick: annabbott
Found Scribe: annabbott
Scribes: jamesn, annabbott
ScribeNicks: annabbott, jamesn
Present: AnnAbbott Birkir JaEunJemmaKu James Matt Michiel jongund Michiel_Bijl

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Got date from IRC log name: 07 Dec 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/12/07-aria-apg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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