<shepazu> anyone else having webex trouble?

<fesch> i did

<fesch> i had to try a second time and I am in, but alone...

<fesch> Jason is in

trackbot, start telcon

<scribe> Chair: Fred

<scribe> scribe: AmeliaBR

Planning Future Activities of Task Force

Rich: We can continue to work on taxonomy, but we also have so much work to do on making sure browsers properly support the SVG mappings.
... I'm trying to focus on, for the short term, coordinating about the name and description computation.
... When the graphics module comes out, we have work finding mappings.

Doug: From my conversations with Leonie at TPAC, I think she has similar concerns: we need to fix basic SVG accessibility, before we move on to more advanced

Fred: Chaals wanted us to create examples. We also need test cases.

<jasonjgw> Amelia notes that test cases reflect the provisions of the spec, wehreas practical examples for authors also include fall-backs for older UAs that don't yet implement the new specs. The latter can be recommended to authors.

Doug: There are multiple levels of testing we need to consider. Basic SVG support, ARIA support, fallback and authoring guidance. We also have to emphasize that this isn't just for screen readers; visual keyboard users and other.

<jasonjgw> Amelia: the focusable attribute in SVG 1.2 is a different way of adding items to the tab order.

<fesch> ?

Doug: So navigation is one issue where different browsers behave differently, name and computation is another.

Jason: This is a lot of work for a small group. We really need to prioritize.
... Is there another group that could take over, e.g. the authoring guidance document?

Amelia: The SVG WG will support us if we ask, but they're really counting on us to bring the expertise and enthusiasm.

Rich: If someone wants to push ahead with authoring guidance, that's great, but my priority is getting the browsers to support a consistent new syntax.

Doug: I don't think those are incompatible. Fallbacks are a separate issue, but we need examples for both authors and browsers of how things *should* work.
... But I agree, because browser agents are currently so bad, it's hard to make authoring guidance based on the new features. But I still think we should emphasize what should be done.
... Logistically speaking, we need to focus. We've done good work, but if we're doing little things here and there, we're not going to get the big things done.
... We need to be more structured on our meetings and keeping track of the work we're doing.
... Ideally, we would have a face to face meeting, if that can be coordinated for time and schedules.
... In working groups I've been on, that can really help focus the work, if the F2F is a real working meeting where we do work in advance and put it altogether when we're there.
... If we can coordinate with another accessibility-themed event, all the better. If we can actually get more people contributing, that can lighten the load for the rest of us.
... Not to distract from the rest of the call, but we should think of who else should be involved & start reaching out.

Rich: We really need to get in touch with browser manufacturers -- at least by sending out code samples, which is what we did originally for ARIA. Maybe recruit Diagram Center.

Doug: You and I (to Rich) need to sit down, brainstorm, and start making calls.
... We need some basic rules for people to follow, so that people can start making accessible content. Not necessarily final guidance, but getting things started, getting people involved.

<jasonjgw> Amelia notes the need to move beyond browsers

Doug: My concern is that if we reach too far beyond browsers, we'll end up spending too much time bring people up to speed with the basics of browser accessibility.

Rich: Getting browsers on board is the first focus. That's my focus with name and description.

<jasonjgw> Amelia notes that Charles may be working on revision of the authoring practices.

Rich: Also with browsers, getting tabindex is important, that will be part of getting SVG 2 to CR status.
... And maybe make up a list of examples of what we're looking for.

Doug: One thing that may be limiting how much work gets done is that we have these meetings on Fridays, which isn't a good time for starting new projects. If we can't have a F2F, maybe a full-day staycation teleconference meeting, where we all work on actually getting things done.

<jasonjgw> Amelia thinks such a meeting will be most effective if the work is well planned and delegated to participants in advance.

Rich: Starting in January, I will have more time. Maybe Monday afternoons.

Doug: I don't want to spend too much time on discussing logistics, but I would want to make sure we're effectively using our time.

Rich: I agree that Fridays tend to pile up with other things.

<jasonjgw> Amelia: we need to determine mappings to the roles in platform accessibility APIs.

<jasonjgw> Amelia: we don't have platform accessibility API mappings for the newly defined roles in the graphics module.

Rich: That shouldn't be too onerous, since there are only 4 roles, but we do need to coordinate; e.g., submit proposals to Apple, who aren't currently very active with the ARIA working group

Jason: Joanie Diggs (?) would be a good person to liase with for Apple and ATK.

Rich: She works on the Orca project.

Jason: There may also be some work happening here that will support SVG, but I can't confirm just yet.

Rich: Again, to move forward, get the examples and concrete proposals, we need more people.

Doug: Well, new people or not, we need more hours put to this job. I myself am pulled between many projects, as much as I care about SVG accessibility.
... One of the things Leonie said is she was concerned these calls were too unstructured, not clear enough agendas, and we don't make effective use of our time.
... If we're going to be doing a lot of work in parallel, we need to create a more structured way to keep us all coordinated.

Rich: I think we need clearly defined work efforts. Who's going to work on examples, who's going to work on reviewing the AccAPIs, who's going to coordinate with browsers.

Fred: I can do test cases in next few weeks.

ACTION Fred to work on developing test cases for SVG 2 accessibility & SVG-AAM

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1746 - Work on developing test cases for svg 2 accessibility & svg-aam [on Fred Esch - due 2015-11-27].

Rich: in particular, the name and description computation

Fred: What about this list of example?

Amelia: Chaals has been putting together some examples.

Doug: I think Fred was just saying we need a clear list of which examples are needed. Could you do that, Amelia?

Amelia: Sure, I could do that for next week.

Doug: Should we cancel next week's telcon? Will many people be gone for Thanksgiving.

Everyone: agreed to cancel telcon for Nov 27.

trackbot, end telcon

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/create examples/create examples. We also need test cases/
Succeeded: s/to far/too far/
Succeeded: s/projects./projects. If we can't have a F2F, maybe a full-day staycation teleconference meeting, where we all work on actually getting things done./
Succeeded: s/deined/defined/
Found Scribe: AmeliaBR
Inferring ScribeNick: AmeliaBR
Default Present: Fred, AmeliaBR, chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, shepazu, LJWatson, Jason, fesch, Doug
Present: Fred AmeliaBR chaals Rich_Schwerdtfeger shepazu LJWatson Jason fesch Doug Amelia Rich
Found Date: 20 Nov 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/11/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: