28 Oct 2015

See also: IRC log




<plh> .... [going through list of changes]

<plh> ... [showing examples]

<plh> ... dl.switch

<plh> Bert: I have a proposal for annoying-boxes

<plh> Fantasai: yes, mine needs improvement

-> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-box-3/ spec with pure-css warning-box using HTML4 only

<plh> Richard: I'd like to have the TOC higher

<plh> Fantasai: markup changes are out of scope

<tripu> My PR for what r12a is mentioning

<plh> ... priority is on publication system

<plh> ... in 2016, I'd like to redo the entire spec templates

<plh> ... to take care of the above the fold issue

<plh> ... [show some possibilities]

<fantasai> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/design/w3c-restyle/

<fantasai> by robin and I, based on karl's post in spec-prod

<plh> ... it will take time to change the markup

<plh> ... we should make changes to the markup all at once, so we don't have to do it every year

<plh> ... it will be good to have people with design experience

<plh> ... a large set is using respec

<plh> ... few are using xmlspec

<plh> ... some are using bikeshed

<plh> plh: webperf uses respec and doesn't care about the styling really

<plh> fantasai: do we want a side-by-side TOC?

<plh> ... rest is some cleaning and dealing with issues on github

<plh> ... [show demo of side TOC]

<plh> Tab: some issues on mobile, we need meta@viewport

<plh> plh: we might be able to convince the tooling and pubrules people

<plh> [folks are reporting issueson side TOC]

<TabAtkins> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1">

(Can't browsers honor the PDF bookmarks properties and auto-generate a ToC, outside the viewport?)

<TabAtkins> Could, but won't.

<fantasai> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/design/w3c-restyle/2016/sample

Or rel=bookmark, then we can put the ToC in the <head>

<plh> plh: at 1920, it would be nice to hide the toc if size is 50% or less

<denis> [talking about max-width on TR documents]

<plh> Fantasai: couple of markup changes: meta viewport

<plh> ... and side-by-side section role=navigation (or nav)

<plh> ... and id=toc

<plh> ... plh should send a survey out about the questions

<denis> is there any plan regarding data extraction (microdata, rdfa, ...)?

<plh> ACTION: plh to publish the survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-restyle-minutes.html#action01]

<tripu> denis, do you think changing the ID of the TOC, or wrapping it with a new element would affect Specberus/Echidna?

<denis> there's no check on the TOC itself so it won't be a problem

<denis> actually, the old pubrules does check the TOC id but that's very easy to update

<plh> [discussion on em, zoom, and tutti frutti]

<plh> Richard: top page shouldn't be printed

<plh> ... and when the TOC disappears, jump to top of TOC instead of top page

<tripu> See my screenshots there for what r12a is saying

<tripu> I have it here: https://github.com/w3c/tr-design/pull/22/files#diff-915dc9cf09496fd0b920c7d65dddd05cR68

<plh> [various detailed tweaking discussions]

<plh> Karl: problem on big tables

<plh> [can't be fixed without js. default is to put the table into a scrollbox]

<TabAtkins> Bert2: Where'd you put the hyphens in the words?

<Bert2> ScribeNick: Bert1

<Bert2> Discussion about the top-left status image

<Bert2> SimonSapin: Can be vector grapics?

<Bert2> Tab: sure, more efficient for bandwidth.

<Bert2> … also need to make it fixed to the ToC, i f the ToC has a background, otherwise it'll be invisible.

<Bert2> r12a: Notes don't seem to say that they are notes.

<Bert2> … unlike examples

<Bert2> … and the highlighted text doesn't look normative, due to the colored bar.

<Bert2> fantsai makes new sample. Reload!

<Bert2> liam: I like things aligned, so would be nice to have the logo aligned with the top of the ToC [in wide view]

<Bert2> fantasai: I'd like to redesign the whole top, for a next redesign

<Bert2> liam: Can we have 1 or 2 sentences at the start to explain what a spec is?

<SimonSapin> Proposal for an alternative W3C logo: http://i.imgur.com/f5bogpL.jpg

<Bert2> fantasai: Next year want to do a compact top with links to notes about status.

<Bert2> karlcow_: Want me to make a more mobile-friendly version of that?

<Bert2> fantasai: So far only a demo, Need proper design first.

<Bert2> plh: Process calls for final design by 30 Oct. Only tweaks afterwards.

<Bert2> fantasai: Removing the side ToC will be easy, just remove some CSS rules. Integrating comments may take more time.

<Bert2> plh: I'll need to start writing the e-mail soon. I'd need a stable snapshot that won't chnage after Oct 31

<Bert2> fantasai: I think people should see the latest, with their comments integrated.

<Bert2> fantasai: Not yet done much on styles for inline code and WebIDL.

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/docs/styleguide

<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/docs/styleguide#inline

<Bert2> r12a: Extra whitespace between headings as you did is great. I vote in favor.

<tripu> +1 to extra spacing too

<Bert2> fantasai: CSS style had even more, but I got comments and reduced the space bit.

<plh> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/tr_toc_2016/

<Bert2> plh: Questionnaire [see url]. Any feedback?

<fantasai> where the window is sufficiently wide (i.e. the maximum line length recommended by a11y is satisfied and extra space is currently going to margins)

<Bert2> fantasai: I need to check question 3: the exact mark-up may be different from <nav id=toc>

<Bert2> plh: Echidna only accepts HTML5. But there will be other publications with HTML4.

<Bert2> … Need to tell people what to do in that case.

<Bert2> florian: Also applies to already published docs?

<fantasai> plh, s/wide window width/wide windows/

<Bert2> plh: No, only after Jan 1, 2016

<Bert2> … When we tried to chnage style a few years ago, people complained that their old docs changed. So we don't do that this time.

<SimonSapin> http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/132000421517/it-hasnt-changed-in-years-republish-it-anyway

<Bert2> fantasai: Any other comments?

<Bert2> several: no, nice work!

<Bert2> fantasai: Comments aither on Github or mail to specprod

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: plh to publish the survey [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-restyle-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015/10/28 03:10:57 $

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Got date from IRC log name: 28 Oct 2015
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