28 Oct 2015

See also: IRC log


Karen, wseltzer


<keiji> chadhage: We need technical standardizetion in marketing and advertising area. That is why we need to work with W3C.

<keiji> chadhage: We had a workshop at Tampa on Sep. 17-18.

<keiji> scribenick keiji

<keiji> chadhage: we would like to begin discuss what we can do from here.

<keiji> giusepp: Is there any overrap with IAB?

<keiji> aaa: Security mechanism in advertisement could be one example.

<keiji> steve: We may be able to setup CG or IG to worr on performance or security issues around this area.

<keiji> karen: It would be necessary for consumer to be able to see if advertisements are genuine or scum.

<keiji> chadhage: How about setting up a communitiy group?

<Karen> Wendy: Some things I said in Web TV group

<Karen> …one high level set of ideas was we ae talking about integrity of marketing in a variety of contexts

<Karen> …integrity of delivery mechanisms

<Karen> [Wendy reading from list]

<wseltzer> Integrity in digital marketing:

<wseltzer> ●

<wseltzer> ●

<wseltzer> ●

<wseltzer> ●

<wseltzer> security of web ad delivery mechanisms, application and page context, and

<wseltzer> viewability;

<wseltzer> robust and auditable data measurement

<wseltzer> reliable marketing asset tracking and product description; and

<wseltzer> user privacy assurances

<keiji> scribenick: Karen

Wendy: Web TV interested in asset and product labeling

…some second screen interest there

…there was interest in a community group focused on user privacy agent

<keiji> scribenick: wseltzer

<Karen> …some people interested in user agent serve as mediation for personalization for targeting of ads

<Karen> …something that would likely be fleshed out further in a CG

<Karen> …to figure out if we would target it elsewhere

<Karen> …and some sort of coordination group

<Karen> …whether IG, BG, CG, TBD

<Karen> …do we have a charter that we can get suffiient definition of projects

<Karen> …and get support of membership to get consortium resources

<Karen> …if so, we can form an IG

<Karen> …otherwise a CG anyone can form, but more definition you give it, the more likely it is to succeed

<Karen> …building a charter is useful

<Karen> Steve: Is this one CG for all the things you listed, or several focused CGs?

<Karen> …Identity is far from sandboxing

<Karen> …not clear that same people would want to participate in both of those

<Karen> Wendy: An IG with task forces, or CG with task forces

<Karen> …one function is a pointer to where digital marketing work is being done in W3C; where to send your technical people to work through these problems

<Karen> …where are the gaps, what are the platform problems

<Karen> …where should we be doing it

<Karen> Chad: Could be multiple organizations, groups

<Karen> …could be one group with multiple task forces

<Karen> Wendy: One of the functions is to help people find the work

<Karen> …for a newer area to W3C, creating a central hub and helping people to spread the work is helpful

<Karen> Steve: I understand what you are saying in principle

<Karen> …does not have to be formal

<Karen> …could be a digital marketing web page that points to a set of CGs indicating what is going on in each one

<Karen> Wendy: As a domain lead, I want someone from the community to maintain that page

<Karen> Chad: What is the advantage of that?

<Karen> Steve: From where I sit, I can see certain things Adobe would like to participate in, and other things we care less about

<Karen> …If I have to wait for a charter to list all these things

<Karen> …but if there are some immediate things like what ad servers need to interact with, that sounds mportant because browsers would cut things off…Amp has already cut things off

<Karen> …my concern is that dialogue needs to open up quickly so that browsers don't take drastic action

<Karen> Jim: Seems to me this questions

<Karen> ..may answer itself if you write a modular charter

<Karen> …see if faster to divide and conquer

<Karen> …but important to spot synergies or gaps which suggests multiple task forces

<Karen> Giuseppe: and question of resources

<Karen> …how many groups can same people attend

<Karen> Chad: May give up cohesion but multiple groups move forward at same time

<Karen> …if charter can be modular, I like that suggestion

<Karen> …It's clear we need a charter; clear next step about where we go from here

<Karen> …What I am seeing here today that I like

<Karen> …is an exposure to an angle that we did not see in workshop

<Karen> …array of where this spans

<Karen> …a lot of info came from technical perspective; today refreshed to see agency perspectives

<Karen> …like to see a forum where the dialogue is strong

<Karen> …hear what you would like to see

<Karen> …what are you looking for on this topiic?

<Karen> s/topic

<Karen> Kosuke: knowledge of @

<Karen> …for targeting

<Karen> …use digital for more sharper targeting across devices, not only demographic

<Karen> …I of course know there is a big, important problem with marketing and privacy

<Karen> …problem among this group

<Karen> …I think that it's hard

<Karen> …I would like to figure out the answer or the guideline

<Karen> …check an action

<Karen> …as very needed

<Karen> …only one time, we cannot make perfect @ about privacy and marketing

<Karen> …what is problem in this case and after check-in we can make better rule about privacy and marketing

<Karen> Cha: hearing things that relate to what you [Mozilla] mentioned earlier

<Karen> …what are some of pieces of information that you want exposed or available to you

<Karen> @: not convinced that privacy is exclusive to marketing

<Karen> …right now you do hacks to get marketing ID

<Karen> …if we had a marketing ID and people could randomize it

<Karen> …could be effective

<Karen> …assuming that majority of people who choose to be targeted, you would get a majority of mechanisms

<Karen> …does not have to be controversial, it is being done with all kinds of hacks already

<Karen> …we can look at here is something we can do on the browser

<keiji> Karen: I would like to have advertisement while I can have certain level of control my information being disclosed.

<Karen> Karen: I want the red shoes use case; state and request what I want, like the auto sites

<Karen> Chad: when I'm making decision to hide the ad

<Karen> …not that it came from FB, Google or Yahoo, that is something I associate with my choices

<Karen> …choices should be represented by the end user agent

<Karen> …end user today is repeating that activity across the different avenues where marketing comes from

<Karen> …let the user agent speak for the user

<Karen> …I should not have to tell that same piece of information to all the browsers

<Karen> …should be able to share with my user agent and represent that choice

<Karen> Guiseppe: Like do not track; this is what I want and don't want

<Karen> Chad: Not sure if that comparison makes sense

<Karen> …DNT is not tracked

<Karen> Giuseppe: this is more about user preference

<Karen> …what about ad blockers

<Karen> Chad: You don't want anything

<Karen> @: Could help change need not to have ad blockers

<Karen> Chad: user experience play

<Karen> …philosophical reasons

<Karen> Francois: And security as well

<Karen> Chad: security, performance of resources

<Karen> Chad: content owners block the ad blockers

<Karen> …vicious cycle

<Karen> …what's suffering is the end user's experience

<Karen> @: and advertisers and publishers are suffering from not getting the revenue

<Karen> Chad: brand, publisher, end user suffers; a cat and mouse game

<Karen> Francois: Do the adverisers suffer?

<Karen> Chad: They are not reaching their audience

<Karen> Francois: Part of that market was not interested

<Karen> Steve: people using ad blockers is probably smaller

<Karen> Chad: I have done it; profiled loading one banner or video on one page

<Karen> …out of 150 interactions of page

<Karen> …I counted 40 that were just to do the tracking and delivery of the ad

<Karen> @: On mobile it uses all your data, and you are paying for that

<Karen> David: This may sound like a non sequetor

<Karen> …listening with my web payments hat

<Karen> …hearing some touch points

<Karen> …think there is security in the browser work that may be starting

<Karen> …not ignore that and have a separate digital browser CG

<Karen> …if digital marketing is only advertising, there could be a role in web payments

<Karen> …advertisers pay web sites, and perhaps that becomes part of the ecosystem

<Karen> …if digital marketing is more than ads, but includes ads and incentives

<Karen> …coupons and loyalty

<Karen> …loyalty is permission to track

<Karen> …you give them something in return

<Karen> …something we need to examine

<Karen> Chad: I like the idea that the workshop helped us understand

<Karen> …not lose that in formation of the next step

<Karen> …Personally I think that what you touched on right there

<Karen> …is if marketing is the umbrella

<Karen> …and you have advertising, coupons, loyalty, different applications of marketing

<Karen> …that could be an application

<Karen> …has an interaction and behavior

<Karen> …that is what you do with an application

<Karen> …collections data, gives back data

<Karen> …are these really different marketing applications

<Karen> Karen: applications approach would help developers whose clients are asking for help with marketing formats but they may not know how

<Karen> David: things that will impact user experience

<Karen> …we have always been down here

<Karen> …several important things; all about simplifying for people who use our stuff

<Karen> Chad: Appreciate everyone giving feedback

<Karen> …I would ike to propose a mid-February f2f

<Karen> …if there is an appetite for a F2F, propose Florida again

<Karen> Steve: I don't have a particular opinion, but would be good to get some commitment from some people who would be willing to draft a charter

<Karen> …assume you are taking the lead

<Karen> Chad: yes, I would want to review a candidate charter

<Karen> Steve: can review by email

<Karen> …see what you get by email and then decide if interest in a f2f; but get something

<Karen> Karen: or align with an IAB event

<Karen> Giuseppe: Look at other events like CES that other people may be joining

<Karen> Chad: Appreciate everyone's input

<Karen> …It will be done via email; keep an eye for the draft

<Karen> …will ask for some guidance on how to get this out to interested parties

<Karen> …we have covered what I wanted to cover here today

Summary of Action Items

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