See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 20 October 2015
<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:ValueSet_approach.pdf
<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/f/ff/ValueSet_approach.pdf
<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/f/ff/ValueSet_approach.pdf
tonY: showing v6 of value set
approach
... two options
lloyd: should be only one option
- the first
... value sets refer to coding bases, not concepts
... concept inside of compose refers to a codingBase
<dbooth> lloyd: line 405 is about codings -- not concepts. Where it says <concept> it does not mean concept.
<dbooth> lloyd: In the case of <concept> on line 134 there is a 1-1 relationship to code.
lloyd: value set is always and only about the set of codes - not concepts
<dbooth> lloyd: you can filter codes in a ValueSet based on their concepts, but a ValueSet is a set of codes.
tony: why are we suddenly getting a rejection of the relationship to concepts?
<dbooth> lloyd: You have Codings and Concepts -- disjoint structures. There's a relationship in which Coding can infer a Concept.
tony: hidden problem in the ORIM
lloyd: coding can never be a member of a concept
david: lloyd's point is that they should be disjoint
tony: it's not possible to do that
lloyd: you type the concept
tony: look at line 60 - substance with external reference
<dbooth> tony: line 61
tony: 60 is correct, but line 61 is not
<dbooth> lloyd: line 60 is right, 61 is wrong
lloyd: concept is a specialization of all of the concepts that are implied based on the particular coding
tony: application of the type on line 61 is incorrect
lloyd: that is exactly what I'm
saying
... when defining a code system, defined the list of permitted
codes
... second thing, list of classes that defines the
meanings
... third step, this particular concept can be inferred if you
see a coding 'x', 'y', 'z', etc.
... : the meaning lives at the concept level, and concept has a
property that points to coding
david: it's a restriction on the property
lloyd: concept has object
property of coding, then coding has properties of code and
system
... in the instance level and the class declaration
tony: we have a change to the way
that we define the restrictions
... line 250-260 need to be restrictions so that it comes out
as a concept with the restrictions on its parts
... would have a restriction on the concept.coding where the
coding has a restriction as in 250-254
... concepts always refer to conceptBase
... we have have the separation - concepts are always concepts,
codings are "parts" of the concept
david: paul is on, so will approve minutes
<dbooth> sep 22 minutes: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150922
david: Paul will chair for
minutes approval
... motion to approve 9/22 minutes
<dbooth> Minutes of sep 22 APPROVED!
paul: opposed - 0, abstain - 0, minutes, in favor - 6; minutesapproved
david: tony, are there other parts of the document we can go through today?
<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/f/ff/ValueSet_approach.pdf
tony: diagram line 432
lloyd: the diagram will be updated to reflect the new understanding?
tony: yes
lloyd: subclass relationships
from top concept and coding base to value set will be
removed
... and subclass relationships from codingBase to concepts 2
and 3 will be removed
... sent an email to ITS list about options for defining value
sets
<dbooth> lloyd, is this the email where you enumerate the ways that ValueSets can be defined? http://lists.hl7.org/read/messages?id=281404
rob: transitive and reflexive are built into OWL
lloyd: some reasoners don't
handle them well
... some of the expressiveness needs to be limited so that the
reasoners can handle it
... HermiT behaved well, also used Pellet
rob: which OWL 2 subset
david: see how it behaves and decide which one to use
lloyd: has problems with address
parts
... street direction relationship is not isa - it's containment
but that is transitive
... v3 asserts the part-of relationships which are transitive -
not legal to assert in OWL-DL, so have a flag
<dbooth> OWL2 profiles: EL, QL, RL http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-profiles/
rob: OWL 2 profiles are EL, QL
and RL
... thanks, David!
lloyd: have multiple versions of the ontology - some reflect more of the world, but are less computable - others express less, but are computationally feasible
david: will need to handle of the
cases that Lloyd listed
... may not be able to handle all of the semantics
tony: we may not be able to translate some of them
david: always as a fallback represent them syntactically
tony: could be a note
david: no
... have to be able to round trip anything in FHIR
... may not be able to capture everything so that it is "OWL
friendly"
<dbooth> rob: probable regrets for next week
<dbooth> rob: In Uruguay for IHTSDO meeting
<dbooth> ADJOURNED
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